Turbo charging a 2004 Caravan

[faster]

I am interested in purchasing a 2004 Caravan and I plan on doing extensive performance modifications to it with little concern to cost. I would like to know if the 3.3 or 3.8 V6 can handle a turbo charger at around 12psi and still be reliable for long road trips. I would like to get around 350hp out of the Caravan. What would you guys suggest is the best way to get this much power out of either the 3.3 or 3.8? Are there ways to beef up the engines internals? Would a supercharger be better? My main concern is reliability and over all drivability because next year I plan on shipping it to Europe and travel all over, even take a drive to Moscow. Thanks.

[wassup]

I know that chrysler tests on forced induction on these engines resulted in the engines blowing up, even at low psi.

[McClane]

I didn't think there was much mods for the 3.3/3.8 engines, but I could be wrong on that.

And even if you could, you would have to bolster the transmission.

[xxumattuxx]

if you found some way to put a turbo on how would you manage fuel

[gas28man]

If you don't care about cost, check out what the guy did with this van selling on Ebay: Auction #2498190698. According to him, mods came to less than $7,000, not including the engine.

Rick

[faterotong]

Dude, don't do any FI on the 3.3 series of engines. THe 3.8 is basically a bored out 3.3L, The block CANNOT stand boost at all. In the 80's Chrysler tested it and under "moderate" boost, the block split. On top of that, with the current internals of our 41TE's, it can only stand 300hp and about 275lb-ft of torque. If you plan on making that much power at that much boost, you'd pretty much have to do everything custom. Then you gotta find performance parts for the 41TE which is basically non-existant but I might be wrong.

[faster]

What is it about the block that makes it weak? If Honda can make a 2L 4cyl making 240 hp, why wouldn't a 3.8 V6 handle more than 300hp? It just seems strange that a cast iron block would break so easily at moderate boost. I heard of an Intrepid with a turbo 3.5 V6. Is that engine built alot stronger than the the 3.8 V6?Those engines that Chrysler tested in the 80's are essentially the same engines as today? I'm just wondering if the current production engines are over all better built and stronger than the 80's version. I currently drive a 96 Caravan with a 3.8 and its got 260k miles on it whith the original motor and tranny, and I drive the thing pretty hard and the motor always keeps going. If the block on these engines is so weak, it should have broken a long time ago. I appreciate the input it just leaves me a little confused on what the engines in the Caravan are capable of. Is the block the only weakness? how about reinforcing the block?

[faterotong]

faster, it's cuz the 3.8L has VERY THIN cylinder walls. 3.8L is pushing the 3.3L block. YOu have to remember, the 3.8L is basically a 3.3L Block that's been bored out. Sure, honda can make a 2L 4cyl making 240hp, but look at all that high tech stuff it needs to constantly make that reliable power? Did you see their torque curves? They basically really have no torque, unlike our pushrod designs.

The 3.8L is a very compact engine for it's size. It keeps on ticking and I'm pretty sure it can support 300hp w/o FI. Just make sure you build it all-motor.

The 3.5L block has nothing to do with the 3.3L If you want more info on both of these engines, I suggest you go to www.allpar.com and check out the 3.3/3.8L and 3.5L pages. Got info right from the engineers that worked on these things.

[McClane]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but to me the 3.3/3.8 engines are designed as 'passenger type engines', thus it was never designed to be modded. Unlike the truck engines (5.2/5.9), they were designed so the aftermarket can design mods for them. I have yet to see any aftermarket performance mods for the 3.3/3.8 engines. In fact, I've only seen one pic on dodgetalk years ago by member angldrskn (sp ?) in which he constructed his own CAI for his caravan.

[faster]

Based on what you guys tell me, I assume it would be better to modify the 3.3 instead of the 3.8. Modifying a 04 or 05 Caravan is actually an idea a good friend of mine wants to do who is an actor on a popular sitcom so he is willing and able to spend the money to make a bad ass minivan. We just like the look of the Caravan the most out of all the mini vans out there. We already know alot what we want to do with it. Remove all the heavy factory seats and reaplace them with light weight Sparco seats and make custom lightweight brackets for the seats, there is a company in Germany that makes some impressive performance suspension products to make it handle nice, also we plan to add 18" lightweight wheels with 245 45 18 tires, a full custom exhaust, and 4 piston brake calipers on 13" rotors on all 4 wheels. But our big question is forced induction. I'm just wondering if there are shops out there that can build any type of motor for performance upgrades. We don't expect 911 turbo acceleration, but we would like 0-60 in 6 seconds. Also some of you say don't go FI. Meaning fuel injection? If I get larger injectors souldn't that be ok? I think for the motor there will be alot of custom work needed but I guess thats what needs to be done. I will go to the allpar site and check out more info. thanks.

[faster]

After searching for more info, I found out that there are a few people who have installed a turbo charger successfully on a 3.3 V6. And there are after market performance forged pistons available for this motor. Mahle, and JE make forged pistons for the 3.3. Also there was a rare Shelby version of the 3.3 making 255 hp, and capable of handling up to 500 hp. But everywhere else I read also states that the 3.8 is not a good choice for forced induction, the 3.3 is a much better choice. So I think we will grab a new 05 silver Caravan sport and start turning it into a sophisticated high performance minivan that should be able to be as quick as a 300c hemi. There is all kinds of info on turbo charging minivans mostly info on 4cyl versions at turbominivan web site. There is also pics and info on a guy who turbo charged a 3.3, although his modifications look crude. We intend on making our turbo mods look factory.

[faterotong]

faster, FI means Force Induction :)

Carroll Shelby did use the 3.8L in some spec racecars of his but I can't find any info on it. You're not thinking about comfort right? You're basically trying to make that fastest FWD minivan out there?

Here's a suggestion, before going nuts with the engine, try finding stronger parts for the tranny...First order of business is heat!! Get a good tranny cooler man, or else that tranny won't last...

If I remember right, you can get custom forged pistons to your specs by JE. But you'd have to get your camshaft ground at a shop...

[Ratler9782]

faster,

I have also researched extensively into seeing the tuning capabilities of the 3.3 V6. I have found a few parts such as a larger throttle body, higher flow injectors, and so on. I would like to see if you wanted to collaborate in tuning a minivan.

I also have intentions of modifying a Caravan along the same lines as you. I think that if we put our info together, we can both benefit from it. Please email (simon.cantos@villanova.edu) me if you would like to get in touch with me and share our information

--Ratler9782--

My Homepage (http://homepage.villanova.edu/simon.cantos)

[faterotong]

If you guys don't mind, I'd like to tag along with any info too! I originally planned on Turboing my dad's '03 GC Sport with the 3.8L, but I'm pretty sure it'd throw a crank like it did on a guys' 3.3L.

Another thing you guys might wanna take into consideration is that you'd have to mess with the electricals!!! Well, at least I'd have to, since I have three options in my head right now that's IF I have enough $$ to buy up my dad's van in 2 years...

1. Turbo the 3.8, OR built it up Naturally Aspired with ceramic-coated internals, ground cam, port it, exhaust, intake, maybe even a little bit of juice, like the Odyssey owners are doing.

2. Swap in the 3.5L from the LH cars. I don't know how I'd do this since they're mounted lengthwise in the LHs, but our 3.8L is mounted sideways. The 3.5L COULD be turbo'ed, or built up NA with juice, again, like the Odysseys are doing. They're takin 100shots of Nitrous!!!! If you don't believe me, go to www.odyclub.com, check out the mod forum. Or just look in people's sigs...100shot and the computer compensates the appropriate amount of fuel!!!!

3. Swap in a Crate 5.7L backed up with a T56 tranny adaption from Keisler automotive. This would require extensive fabrication work which I am unable to do right now since I don't have the knowledge, resources, or skill to do so. I'm planning on going to University, then to Wyotech.

What do you guys think?

[McClane]

Man, what you guys are planning sounds sweet ! I didn't know odyssey owners are modding their vans. I hate to say this, but Dodge has a real popular vehicle out there on the road, but has made it so modding is much more difficult to do. If they tuned their ecm and internals (including tranny) for potential modding, I am sure the caravan would be very popular amongst modders.

IMO, I think the caravan is a much sharper looking minivan than the odyssey.

[faster]

We might begin this project in a couple of months because I will be heading to Europe to do some work and my buddy is also very busy right now, but we hope to have everything ready by next september. Do you guys think that the tranny will be ok with just a tranny cooler? I was just thinking that these transmissions are designed to handle towing over 3000lbs on long journeys so it should be durable enough to handle an engine with around 300-350hp. Also with the light weight wheels, and all seats replaced with light weight seats should reduce the weight of the van by atleast 200lbs, putting even less stress on the tranny. We would never plan on doing any type of towing with this van. We want to make this Caravan a nice blend of high performance, civility, and long drive comfort. Its strange that the best performance suspensions products for the Caravan comes from Germany so when I am there I will pick up the parts I need and ship them. I do encourage anyone who is willing and able to modify these Caravans. I think the new Caravans look very sharp and would look the sweetest with tastefull mods. When ever I am in Europe, the Caravan is the main minivan you see on streets, but you will hardly ever see a Windstar or any GM van. But the French got a few modified versions of the Renault Espace minivan thats quicker than a Viper!

[McClane]

faster, if you are planning to boost the 3.3 to 300-350 hp, I doubt very much the 41te will be able to handle it. Remember, if you do increase hp you'll also increase torque, and if your tranny isn't built for higher torque numbers it will blow up on you.

It is like modding a Ram/Dak, if you increase the HP you also have to bulk up your tranny so it can handle that added hp/torque increase. Not doing so will result in tranny malfunction.

Good luck, and keep us up to date on your project !

[gas28man]

And don't forget beefier half-shafts. The stock ones fail at about 125,000 miles, so I can't imagine they'd stand up to 500 hp without some kind of improvement.

Once you get through with beefing up the 3.3, beefing up the tranny, beefing up the rest of the driveline, that guy with the rear-drive, 440 ci, Torqueflite 727, 1996 Caravan looks like he'd got the better idea if what you want is a go-fast minivan. Take a look at the pics on Ebay. It's awesome.

Rick

[McClane]

gas28 is right, by the time you beef up the tranny, 3.3 internals, drive shafts, motor mounts, ... you maybe better off bidding on that V8 Caravan. Even though the guy isn't supplying the engine, he is supplying the transmission. You can always find a crate motor somewhere to bolt up to the 727. Besides, the 727 is a bullet proof tranny, so it should be able to handle a hemi engine without any problems.

I have to admit, if you can pull off the 3.3 mod, I would be very interested in seeing pics, as I've yet to see any type of mods done to the 3.3.

[faterotong]

If I choose to modify the 3.8, I'll get it built real good. lol, Anyways, the tranny WILL NOT be ok with JUST a tranny cooler. You need more than that. I already stated that the current 41TE can only handle about 300hp&275lb-ft of torque according to engineers I spoke to on allpar.com

[SPs 77 Dodge]

Try : www.turbominivan.com
I know they do the older ones.