Aftermarket performance request

[MAGGY]

I am one that obviously wants more out of my Hemi, My wish list includes

Gears, at least a 4:10. If you have never driven a car with gears, these will wake this car up in a way you can not imagine.
A reliable computer program that would create a "sport" and "econo" mode. the "econo" mode would simply be the stock program, and a "sport" program would:
1. disable MDS
2. disable the torque converter clutch
3. firm up the shift points for performance
4. cut the cooling fan on at a lower temperature

I dont think that is too much to ask for!!

What would you like to see??

[MagnumFreak]

I would like a computer program myself. An engineer I spoke with at DC who worked on these vehicles says there is "a great deal of unused potential in the engine that is available through the computer". That is all he would say about it.

There is already a cat back system available for the R/T. From Borla. From what I understand it sounds really good and there is a performance gain from their system. About 16 hp and 8 ft/lbs of torque.

[WumpscuT]

I definately want the program.. I all my reading, this is the one mod that'll increase you're yoursepower the most without getting into power adders....

following the program would be the gears, but not to wild.. i am a bit concerned with fuel economy... .... I wish someone could invent something that would switch the ratio electronically or something from the low 3's to a low to mid 4.... that would be so sweet..... the best of both worlds...

[TCalYen]

FYI...

There are lots of little tweaks you can do to your engines that will increase performance.

IE

CAI... It's very easy to buy one of of eBay and custom fab it to work on the Magnum. There is one out there specifically made for the Magnum.

Relocate the IAT sensor.

Port the TBody.

Wires and plugs... MSD Ignition

Cooler TStat

Put on an electric fan... Dodge Vipers are great!

Figure out what smaller crank pulley would bolt on.

Change shift points by adjusting the tbody cable.

Also, I would highly suggest getting a quote from a good exhaust shop before fishing out the money for any aftercat system... You'll get a better system for less.

[MagnumFreak]

FYI...

There are lots of little tweaks you can do to your engines that will increase performance.

IE

CAI... It's very easy to buy one of of eBay and custom fab it to work on the Magnum. There is one out there specifically made for the Magnum.

Relocate the IAT sensor.

Port the TBody.

Wires and plugs... MSD Ignition

Cooler TStat

Put on an electric fan... Dodge Vipers are great!

Figure out what smaller crank pulley would bolt on.

Change shift points by adjusting the tbody cable.

Also, I would highly suggest getting a quote from a good exhaust shop before fishing out the money for any aftercat system... You'll get a better system for less.

CAI: three companies make them now.
Relocate IAT: Fairly easy mod. Move it closer to the air box.
Port the TB: Fastman has inidcated that there is not much even he can do with the TB on the Magnum. He said that DC did their homework on this one.
Wires plugs MSD ignition: non available for these cars yet. No platinum plugs, no wires. There are 8 coils and 16 spark plugs on these cars. MSD may take a while to come up with something.
Cooler TStat: That would help some. Current one is too hot (set this way for emissions).
put on electric fan: already has two. Phew! That was easy. ;)
Smaller crank pully: No one makes one yet. The one on the car is pressed on not bolted on. You have to remove the radiator to remove the crank pully. Lots of work little gain.
Change shift points by adjusting the tbody cable: There is no TB cable. It is electronically driven. Only wires to move. Would need some sort of computer program to adjust.

The only things available for these cars right now is a cat back, a few CAI, and some cheesy stickers available on Ebay.

[TCalYen]

The car only has electric fans? Are you sure as I don't have one.

Any cooler plugs will improve performance...

You can go to www.nologyengineering.com and they will custom make you some plug wires that will blow anything on the market away!

You can also remove the cat but might suffer some lower end loss until you install headers and an intake manifold.

[MAGGY]

Yep, only electric fans. My guess is what it would cost for nology to make some wires (16) for this car, the gain would be so minimal you might as well just give me the cash and i will paint the current wires on the car red and tell you they are great. Sorry not bashing, but i have had a problem with nology for years. As advanced as this motor is, i beleive the electrical system is more than sufficient. The bottle neck lies in the overall computer program.

However, on the quest for more power each little mod helps. I am going to swap the thermo for sure along with the exhaust. I would like to see an x or H pipe made for the car. Looking underneath i am having mustang flash backs!!


The car only has electric fans? Are you sure as I don't have one.

Any cooler plugs will improve performance...

You can go to www.nologyengineering.com and they will custom make you some plug wires that will blow anything on the market away!

You can also remove the cat but might suffer some lower end loss until you install headers and an intake manifold.

[MyRT]

The stock system has an X pipe.

[TCalYen]

Yep, only electric fans. My guess is what it would cost for nology to make some wires (16) for this car, the gain would be so minimal you might as well just give me the cash and i will paint the current wires on the car red and tell you they are great. Sorry not bashing, but i have had a problem with nology for years. As advanced as this motor is, i beleive the electrical system is more than sufficient. The bottle neck lies in the overall computer program.

However, on the quest for more power each little mod helps. I am going to swap the thermo for sure along with the exhaust. I would like to see an x or H pipe made for the car. Looking underneath i am having mustang flash backs!!

Very true that Nology Wires would cost more than others... but... I personally had incredible results with them... and cooler platinum tipped plugs. It's very much a debated topic though many many race teams swear by nology... anyway... it's kind of hard for me to conjecture what mods would work without knowing the engine offhand... I guess I should by one for "ME", I mean my wife :D . I'm waiting for the 6.1 though.

There are ported and polished heads out there that will definitely fit on that engine. If I were you all I would be pressuring companies for an intake and headers... along with a ECU flash...

Good luck!

[MAGGY]

There are ported and polished heads out there that will definitely fit on that engine. If I were you all I would be pressuring companies for an intake and headers... along with a ECU flash...

Good luck!

Agreed!!! :rck:

[MagWagon]

Actually I thought the question was what should be done first. I think there is no better bang for the buck than gears.

Based on what I've read (mostly on this site) the computer program does sound like the ideal way to get more bang.

Gears = $ , Custom programming for your Hemi = $$??

[Herb Jenssen]

Wumscut,
There is a company out there that has been doing what you wished for years. Unfortunately, my hard drive is full and I can't think of the name.
I know it has the word "gear" in the name.
It's a device that attatches to the rear of the transmission and it's like another
overdrive so you can have low gears for performance and high gear for the highway.
Later
Herb

[Fergyr31]

Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't the R/T have the direct coil system. Each cylinder has its own coil that is mounted right over the spark plug that is computer controlled. There isn't any room for Nology plug wires. Unless your talking about going with a complete aftermarket computer setup.

[MagnumFreak]

RT has 8 coils and 16 spark plugs. Each coil feeds two spark plugs. One on each side of the engine.

[Autojunkie]

FYI...

Change shift points by adjusting the tbody cable.



The car has electronic throttle control (ETC). There is no TB cable.

[MAG-WAGn]

I would have to say the Computer Program as MY
#1 choice. As stated earlier, it MIGHT really
UNLEASH the Hemi possibilities.
#2 choice Gears would go great.


Rich...MAG-WAGn

[Spike30]

With some customization, you could probably bolt one of Gear Vendors Under/Overdrive units in (gearvendors). It will cost a small fortune but may be worth having a "10" speed transmission at the touch of a button. Between that, some intake/exhast modifications and an eventual chip, this car will be a monster.....

[Raxstone]

If you are considering tranny work (shift kit, etc), then you should also consider a higher stall torque converter. What is the factory stall rated at?

[ELDuce]

I think the biggest hting this car needs is a decent gearing. Why did dodge not just stick with the SXT gearing spec's for the RT? The only thing I could think is that it would maybe twist the frame. (Just got mine and haven't checked it over yet.) Also I think some nice performance additions would include:

1- 3.73 Gearing
2- Supercharger
3- Catback system
4- Custom Performance chip to make it all come together

Just my 2 cents worth.

[sikpuppy]

Hey guys, please note that THERE ARE NO SPARK PLUG WIRES ON EITHER THE HEMI OR THE 3.5 V6. They have a coil that connects DIRECTLY to the plug so the only thing that can improve your spark will be different coils (8 for the Hemi and 6 for the V6 - duh!) Please, correct me if I am wrong about the Hemi since I have an SXT with the 3.5 V6 but from looking at the 5.7L Hemi, I saw no plug wires.

[rps232]

There are still wires on the Hemi's, just lift the cover of and there are a whole mess of them. I think one runs the coil on one cylinder to the plug on another one, hard to explain but there are cobles there. :D

I found three CAI's
-Airraid
-K&N
-360 something

and two Cat backs that are about a grand :mad:
-Magnaflow (with sound clips)
-Borla

Not much else out there that I can find.

[sikpuppy]

Correct on the cables for the second plug per cylinder, but it is attached to the coil over on the primary plug. I might be mistaken, but I believe you would have to change the coil and plug wire together. As far as exhaust, unless you want to spend a lot of extra money for a stainless steel exhaust system from Borla or Magnflo, why not just buy the mufflers and go to a muffler shop and have them custom bend the tubing for you? You can acheive the same effect for less than 1/2 the cost of these BOLT ON systems. Bunch of clamps and crap when a good muffler shop will do a SEAMLESS install with the only clamps being after the Cats and nowhere else. Just my 2 cents worth.

[rps232]

I think that's a given on the plug wires, all would probably have to be changed. I've also had a few friends tell me to go to a muffler shop and have them fabricate an exhaust for about a third of the cost. Looks like I'll be doing that, hopefully soon...

[louz]

Question....Aren't the exhaust on the R/T's stainless? The brochure states for the R/T features "Stainless dual exhaust with polished tips" . I would also agree to replace the mufflers with performance ones is more cost effective.

Lou Z.

[Wicked96SS]

Just a word of warning before you go swapping in colder TStats willie nillie... the PCM uses the coolant temperature (among other things) to let the PCM know when to switch from Open Loop to Closed Loop operation as well is what fuel table to use (how much more fuel to add when cold etc.)... changing the T Stat WILL effect how the car functions unless the PCM is re-programmed for the cooler operating temperatures... I doubt that you would do any damage, but you certainly would cause some drivability and gas milage issues if you put a T Stat that is too cold.

The correct way to do it would be to put a cooler T Stat in, and adjust the PCM for it...

An example: I did this on my 1996 Impala SS when I first started racing it before I knew what I was doing... it actually hurt my 1/4 mile times because it was running too rich. I realized what was going on once I got the correct equipment to actually look at the data in the PCM and made changes... well, actuallly, I removed the TStat all together and replaced it with a spacer... but, it was pretty much just a project car at that point anyhow.

ALSO: Moving the IAT
sensor on the Impala did absolutely nothing... temperature readings were pretty much the same... not saying that it would do nothing on the Magnum, but for the Impala, nothin'...

ALSO: Smaller crank pullys are great, but I have seen issues with charging systems because of them... but, then again, not on a Magnum, so not sure if it would have the problems or not. Charging issues were solved by a higher AMP alternator...

These are all just observations that I have made in the past... take them or leave them.

[sikpuppy]

I'll just be glad when a performance module or chip is available so you CAN do something about the tuning of each INDIVIDUAL engine.

[HGB7862]

OK everybody, what is going on with the RT, has anybody come up with a chip Yet????? And how about a CAI, that actually works????? LET me hear some feedback, I am ready to break 5.0 seconds zero to sixty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SamsRams]

Got my R/T in August, and today got logged onto this forum. Love my Magnum, but being an old-school hot rodder there are some things that bug the crap outta me.
First off - Lousy throttle response - delayed badly
Second - Slushbox tranny - feels like it needs a shift kit
Third - Pulls to the right

I fortunately have a great relationship with my dealer, and they have been working on those three items since I got it. First, the throttle response and tranny shifting (geeze I hate the sloppy tranny but I'll live with it) - there was a TSB on it, and I had the reprogram done, but no difference.
The drift to the right - maddenning drift - but they've done a lot of work to it including the cradle shifting, and I have to say it's lots better, but still there.
Still, all that aside, I brought a complete 440 long block back from the machine shop complete right in the back of that thing - couldn't believe it and neither could the shop guys - open the hatch, go right in, drop it, take 'er home - fantastic!
Great car, and I probably wouldn't have any gripes about the three issues above if I hadn't grown up racing Mopars with carbs and hard tranny linkage....
Cool site too - good stuff here.
- Sam

[david borla]

Borla will have headers for the R/T soon.

[sikpuppy]

David,
What about the SXT?? any plans to adapt the R/T exhaust to the SXT? I mean, the undercarrizge is the same. The only thing that the kit would need would be (1)a differnet OD exhaust pipe (2)thermal insulation for the gas tank and (3)a hanger for the driver side exhaust/resonator, amd (4) the buyer would be responsible for doing the cutout on his bumper cover. Any possibility??

[gsjoe]

WJNVB

[gsjoe]

with points one and two. Mine does not pull to the right. I too am an old school racer. (1960s & early 1970s) I'm back :D RT Magnum and modifing

[MAGNUM FORCE]

FYI, the hemi has a total of eight plug wires. Each cylinder has two spark plugs, and one coil. The coil sits on top of one of the plugs, and then a plug wire from the coil is used to fire the cylinder opposite it in the firing order. For example, the firing order is 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2, so the coil on cyl. #1 feeds #1 directly via the coil and also #6 on the opposite bank via a wire. Don't have the exact explanation for this, but I imagine they found that by doing so there's a more complete burning this way. I believe it's probably only burning residual gases from the opposite cylinder, maybe mostly for emissions purposes. I seriously doubt that any aftermarket plug wires are going to make any significant improvements to this vehicle. Oh, but they might look cool, indeed :IDEA:

Also regarding cold-air-kits, unless someone can prove me wrong with either a dyno sheet or 1/4 mi before-and after test, I doubt you will improve upon the factory cold-air induction. Reach your hand into the box after the car is hot and you'll notice the box is relatively cool inside, because it gets cool air from a 3" duct that goes in front of the front tire, and goes into a sealed box.

The only possible improvements here are most likely a higher-flowing filter element (although most of the K&N type filters don't actually filter out more debris, that's why they flow better), and what I plan to do, which is, wrap insulation around the box and the intake tube to the throttle body, to prevent heat soak from the engine compartment. The Airaid and K&N "cold air kits" are actually just heat shields that are open to the eng. compartment! Defeats the whole purpose...they might make more "suck" noise, but that's about all they do...suck. The ultimate set up would be a scooped hood with ducting directly into the throttle body. I understand there is a Viper-style hood available, but don't think the CAI kit is ready yet.

I think there are definite gains to be made in the exhaust dept, gearing (I'd like to see something around a 3:35:1 ratio for all-around drivablility) and with computer programming. OH, and a turbo or supercharger kit would be nice too. ;)

My two cents worth.

[gsjoe]

two cents worth? Seems like much less. can you count? Do your home work.

[done]

two cents worth? Seems like much less. can you count? Do your home work.

I don't get the point you are trying to make.

[lbstone]

I think an intake, exhaust and a reprogramer should do the trick(once they make one). I think changing the gearing would affect the high speed highway cruising that I love so much in the RT! I just installed an K&N short ram on my friends 04 WRX STI and it made a nice difference regardless of what people say (I drove it before and after and noticed that the power delivery was much smother and the vehicle had quite a bit of noticable low end power. This is significant in a turbo charged car).

[MAGNUM FORCE]

two cents worth? Seems like much less. can you count? Do your home work.

Can I count? Yes, I believe so. But just in case, can anyone else help me? Here's a photo of my hemi, and the spark plug wires, which are numbered, 1-8. How many spark plug wires does that mean? BTW, I counted the number of wires, not the number of plug boots...

[gsjoe]

my post was in reference to previous postings. They seem to come up on the wrong page or order sequence some how. A comment was previously made Somewhere about no plug wires on a HEMI and no difference between a tuned to the engine exaust and just buying a muffler and having it installed. My experience is that just a muffler, although changing the sound, can possibly hinder performance.

[MattRobertson]

The only possible improvements here are most likely a higher-flowing filter element (although most of the K&N type filters don't actually filter out more debris, that's why they flow better)

Just because something flows more freely that is no evidence that it achieves this result via less effective operation. Whats the basis for that statement?


The Airaid and K&N "cold air kits" are actually just heat shields that are open to the eng. compartment!


I'm going to chalk that statement up to personal prejudice because it just can't be reconciled with the actual equipment. There is a pretty significant neck-down in the air-flow at one point in that stock assembly that is by no means present in the K&N and I assume Airraid et al. Someone posted pics of that restriction here not so long ago. Is it a gigantic problem? Of course not. You asked to see a dyno. Page back thru the archives. Someone did that here after putting on a Typhoon. I believe it was a 13hp gain. No idea if those gains will stick given the computer, but thats true of everything with this car.

And as for temperature, Done made up a killer temperature test of the stock element which in my mind proved that the stock intake does a great job in this department. However there is nothing regarding temp when dealing with a 'heat-shield' intake like the K&N.

So I bought a wireless temp gauge at Orchard Supply and have been testing it on my Typhoon for the last couple of days; driving around town. I have the sensor embedded in the very top of the filter (just pushed it in between the pleats where it stuck) so as to -- in theory at least -- get the air at its warmest. Results after driving around at about 40mph; stopping at lights etc. is pretty much exactly what Done posted: cool air. In our 50-degree weather I'm seeing 55-60 degrees in the city (idling, it gets warmer of course). This is a worst-case environment, I think, and just a preliminary test.

So based on data so far I would say your suppositions are just plain wrong as far as the Magnum is concerned. Maybe you're right insofar as some other car is concerned, but not this one.

I have some time on my hands this weekend and I plan on doing controlled-low-to-mid-speed runs on some country roads, as well as a run later this morning thats solidly uphill, and later today a long freeway drive that has some nasty grades in it. I'm planning on taking pics as I go along similar to Done's web site. We'll see if the preliminary stuff holds up.

Cheers,

[MAGNUM FORCE]

Just because something flows more freely that is no evidence that it achieves this result via less effective operation. Whats the basis for that statement?

The basis for that statement is after years of working on performance automobiles, and finding debris inside carburetors and intake tracts which ran K&N-style elements. Not old filthy ones either, new ones that were well-sealed. The reason a K&N flows more air is because it is more porous, and not as dense. It relies on oil to catch particles. Unless the oil is meticulously applied, there is more likelihood that small particles will travel through. Here's a quote from CT performance...they race off road: "K&N Air Filters, CT recommends K&N air filters always be used in conjunction with an Outerwear or K&N pre-charger. K&N air filters are best for sand only. Unfortunately K&N's will pass fine dust particles, so we don't recommend them for desert racing or all conditions. K&N air filters have very good airflow characteristics and will keep out the big stuff just fine." http://www.ctracing.com/air.htm

My theory is, if you want airflow, go with a K&N, if you want protection, go with a quality paper element and change it regularly.

I'm going to chalk that statement up to personal prejudice because it just can't be reconciled with the actual equipment.Regarding The Typhoon and similar setups, where are they getting their cold air from? The "best" designed ones are an air "box" that's open on the top. Unless they seal perfectly against the hood, they are allowing warm air in, unlike the factory setup, which is sealed and draws only from a cold air duct.

In Done's setup, which was a nice job, you'll notice that one of the major components of his design is that he insulates the duct to the throttle body. Apparently he felt that the stock airbox worked fine at drawing cool air, but that due to heat soak, the air was heated up again after the filter. If you want to get accurate results with your testing, it seems to me that the temperature probe should be as close to the throttle body as possible, where it counts. Checking it at the filter leaves out the variable of how much it gets heated again going through the intake ducting. How does the chrome-plated or metal tube used in the Typhoon setups work at deflecting engine heat? :flamer:

Good luck with your testing, seriously, and I hope the Typhoon set up works out for you. I just don't see it. If you run across that dyno test, can you post a link for me? Peace.

[MattRobertson]

The basis for that statement is after years of working on <snip>

OK fair enough. I know a lot of folks who know a lot more on the subject than me who swear by 'em but I can see the sense behind the point. I'll look around some more but it seems a pre-filter is in my future.

In Done's setup, which was a nice job, you'll notice that one of the major components of his design is that he insulates the duct to the throttle body. Apparently he felt that the stock airbox worked fine at drawing cool air, but that due to heat soak, the air was heated up again after the filter. If you want to get accurate results with your testing, it seems to me that the temperature probe should be as close to the throttle body as possible, where it counts. Checking it at the filter leaves out the variable of how much it gets heated again going through the intake ducting. How does the chrome-plated or metal tube used in the Typhoon setups work at deflecting engine heat?

I took some notes and pics and posted them

http://foohbar.com/magnum/test01.cfm

Bottom line is in freeway driving -- and to a moderately lesser extent town driving -- the air flowing into the filter is effectvely at outside temperature. Whether this is due to plenty of air rushing in from the grill, or boiling up from the bottom I haven't a clue. I planned out of curiosity to measure it from underneath, and I may still, but since the results came out so close to the outside air temp when measuring from the top there doesn't seem to be much point.

Tomorrow I plan to see if I can take the filter off and through that plant the sensor inside the tube... safely without getting it sucked into the engine. The thought of stringing a wire in and letting it dangle, so to speak, in there is more than a litle scary. May be further than I want to go in the cause of science. :crazy:

Thinking on it I should probably just tape the sucker straight to the exterior of the tube, front and back, to test to see if the surface itself is inordinately hot at speed. Probably a stupid question but a better first step than taking the filter apart.

I tried looking around for that post. I'm pretty sure its at another forum. The thread header was obvious, like "My new K&N ave me 13hp!" or some similar neon sign. I'm not at home and stuck on dialup. Surfing on a sea of molasses right now. I'll keep looking.

Cheers,

[done]

When I ran my temperature tests, I had the sensor laying in the intake tube at the bend in the pipe.

[MattRobertson]

Any idea as to the air speed velocity in there? I think I have an idea as to how to get the thing in but I want to be extra careful about this. How did you secure its position inside?

[done]

Any idea as to the air speed velocity in there? I think I have an idea as to how to get the thing in but I want to be extra careful about this. How did you secure its position inside?


My sensor is on a 10 foot wire that extends from the display. So I just laid in the intake where I wanted it and put the airbox back on. The wire then holds the sensor in place.

[MattRobertson]

OK Gotcha. I ran external tests today (laying the sensor against the aluminum tube both at the front near the elbow, the front near the filter and the back near the elbow (worst-case external).

Readers' Digest version: Temps on the tube did not reach my expectations (whatever that means). Tested surface temp at the front of the tube nearest the elbow

http://foohbar.com/magnum/pict0036.jpg

which at least seemed mild-mannered, tempwise. However that didn't account for the heat generated by the engine but reduced by the wind into the grille (which didn't seem to be a big deal).

http://foohbar.com/magnum/pict0056.jpg

I did a reverse run placing the sensor at the back of the tube, where the wind at least in theory has the least influence

http://foohbar.com/magnum/pict0057.jpg

I'll write it up -- and put in better-sized pics other than the raw shots quoted above -- tomorrow.

FYI worst case external temp from the back side was 121 F as I had a long straight onramp and no traffic. So scientific method be dammed... WOT to 100 mph until I caught up to the next traffic block about 2 miles away. 121 F. That was max temp observed.

[magnuman]

MATT and done,
My temp. sensor is laying inside the intake tube just like done's in approximately the same place (at the bend about three inches from the throttle body. With my new mod. http://www.dodgetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41782 my true intake air temp. is much closer to ambient and recovers more quickly than stock (done's tests) and my original tests with my first mod. to the air box. I still haven't had it on the highway, so I don't know how it will work under those conditions. I do know that in town steady driving it stays within ten degrees of ambient. So far the biggest difference in town has been 25 degrees. This is with ambient around 35-40 degrees.

[MattRobertson]

Some DNS issues (i.e. I screwed it up for only a moment, but thats all it takes) torpedoed my foohbar.com domain for the next few hours. However if you use the numeric IP address you can get to the stuff I posted.

http://66.165.78.21/page_33.cfm

Click on the plus sign next to the K&N Typhoon menu choice to expand out the menu and make the test links visible.

I was able to get a sensor into the elbow. Not as far back as the factory sensor, but its in there.

Bottom line: The Typhoon doesn't appear to heat up the air. The heated exterior surface of the aluminum, which I noted in my surface tests did not affect the interior temperature of the air to any significant degree. 3-4 degrees maybe.

Comments?

[done]

Matt,


If I am reading your photos correctly, you are only 1 or 2 degrees above ambient at normal driving speeds.

It would seem that you getting a little cooler air than the stock system.

It would seem that the people who have been conjecturing that these types of systems would be affected by the underhood temps were wrong.

Is the stock silencer still in place?

I will repeat my tests when the temperature gets much warmer. I am curious about how much difference the ambient temperature makes. My tests were done at 66 degrees, yours at 52 degrees.

In any case, real data instead of guesses is an amazing thing.

[MattRobertson]

Don,

Yes that should be about right. Temp went *down* a couple of degrees as I left town and hit rural areas, and you have to factor that in, but we're not talking about large differentials here.

When you finally get down to the internal sensor test the thing is mighty close to ambient. It heats up when throttle is applied, and cools right back down again afterwards. After a hard WOT application, followed by 65 mph for perhaps 10 miles, in turn followed by ups and downs ranging from 60-90, biased towards cruising near that top end for another 10 miles, temp stayed at 58 with ambient in/around 52.

Yes the stock silencer is still in place. Not sure if its doing anything though. How much gets sucked thru a straw when nothing is sucking on it? I don't know enough about the mechanics of such things to hazard a guess.

I too am very curious to see what happens when the weather gets warm, and it gets downright hot here, in the 100's for days at a time. Is an 8 degree-above-ambient in 50-degree weather equal to 16 degrees with 100 ambient? Will the engine heat up to the point where we do get that blowtorch effect?

We'll know in July I guess.

[gsjoe]

I do appreciate all your hard work and posting. Thank you. I am considering my options for my CIA. I seems logical that as the rpms increase, the air flow velocity increases so the time in the box to manifold is so short that it probably doesn't have time to warm up even though the engine heat is warming the tube. On the other hand low rpms are an other matter.
solution? keep the rrrs up. :) Maybe some ice in the box (at the appropiate time) might help just enough to embarrass that pesky cobra. :IDEA:

[epg3]

Anyone tried putting a 6cyl rear differential in a R/T? 6cyl differential = 3.90:1!

[magnuman]

They are totally different differentials. The RT has 210RII (ring gear diameter) and the SXT and SE have a 198RII. So far the only gears for the RT are 2.82. The people with the SXT and SE have more of a choice. They have 3.08, 3.64 or 3.90. I have a friend that is a Mercedes mechanic and I am going to have him check to see if the RT is an exact crossover to the E series Benz like all the propaganda for the Magnum says, and if so, what gears are available for the E's. Also the AWD has the 198RII differentials also. Bet it would be pretty spendy to change two on one of them.

[chefgreg]

Computer, gears, intake, headers and plug/wires is my thoughts.

[DEETER]

jet chip has a chip for the 5.7 hemi I installed one this week it really helped the perfomance you can call or go online at jetchip.com,It makes up to 28 more hp

[magnuman]

MAGNUM FORCE,
I am the one that built the insulated duct from the stock air box to the throttle body. You are correct about the stock air box being more than adequate. The only thing I did to the air box is cut another hole in the front and duct in cold air from behind the radiator, and insultated the lower part of the air box. See this and intake tube mod. at: http://www.dodgetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41782
Using the formula for intake air volume requirements on the K & N web site, the area of the stock air filter is more than sufficient to provide enough airflow under ANY conditions with the stock Hemi engine at maximum RPM. Most driving (at least mine) is obviously done below max. RPM. I have since modified my insulated air duct to provide further benefits. The inner duct is now made of 4 inch ID cellular insulated (1/4 inch wall thickness) ABS black pipe that goes from the box to the bend going into the throttle body. (This is where I have my temp. gauge sensor located.) The ABS is wrapped with a layer of two rows of plastic bubble wrap encased on both sides with aluminum foil. This was cut from a front windshield slip-in sun protection visor bought from a local auto parts store. Why bubble wrap?? I researched it on the internet and found it is only surpassed by argon gas as an insulator of heat. The study I used lists insulators in this order of effectiveness: argon, air (bubble wrap), styrofoam, polystyrene (solid), wood, teflon, water, glass, and concrete. I looked at a few other studies which also listed bubble wrap as among the most effective. Any way, then I have the 5 inch aluminum outer tube. As an experiment I have also insulated the elbow where it goes into the throttle body. I have to find a way to sanitize the elbow mod. though, if it works. My intake air temp. when cold, in town now runs from minus one degree (might be due to the calibrations of the two units) to plus two degrees of ambient. Around town stop and go after warm up runs 3-8 degrees from ambient with long stops in traffic at the higher end. Within a mile it will cool down to 4-7 degrees of ambient. On the interstate from about 50 mph up it runs at ambient after about 3 miles at speed. After a 15 plus minute stop, start driving at 35-40 mph and cool down from around 100 degrees to coolest takes about 3 miles with the biggest drop (30-40 degrees) taking place within the first mile or so. These tests were done with ambient running between 35-50 degrees. I imagine in warmer temps. the variance from ambient may increase, but I am fairly confident that at highway speeds true intake air temp. will run at or within a couple degrees of ambient. The biggest problem in my opinion is controlling heat soak, as indicated by sub-ambient to near ambient when the engine is cold. I feel the majority of this problem comes from the intake tube. I did not notice much difference after insulating the air box. Is all this worth it? Aside from my love of tinkering, I'd say, yes! I am at about $120 for all mods. and my gas mileage for the last two tanks (154 hrs/3800 miles currently) has been 17.6 and 17.2 mpg respectively with about 97% of driving in town and an occasionaly WOT blast. Others have documented dyno tests for the air box mod. vs. stock, so I am sure there is also a small increase in power. Keep on tinkering!!

[rthemi]

Deeter So hows this Jet chip ... tell us more about it? having any probs? did u really see the difference?

[magnuman]

DEETER,
Is the jet chip you got for a 5.7 Magnum/300C Hemi with the multiple displacement system?

[MAGNUM FORCE]

Sorry Magnuman, somehow I got you mixed up with Done. Anyway, I'm right with you on your ideas. In fact, I sort of duplicated your setup. I actually eliminated the factory eardrum (saved 2 lbs!) and made the new opening in front of the airbox, and added 3" pvc and an elbow to draw right from behind the grille. I also crudely wrapped the intake duct with 1" fiberglass insulation, and put some between the airbox and the coolant reservoir to reduce heat soak.

I may replace the materials with the bubble wrap insulation for a cleaner look.

I just made my own website to document my progress with the Magnum and share ideas. It's not finished yet, but most of the pages are up:

www.ybrband.com/magnum/index.html

[magnuman]

MAGNUM FORCE,
I checked out your web site. Your intake mod. looks great. Did you use 4 inch and reduce it down to 3 inch? I left the silencer alone. I took it out, looked at it and put it back in. There is no restriction, just a couple baffle chambers to silence air flow through it. My thought was, if it needs more air it can get it from there. I suspect most of the air is coming from the new mod. as it is shorter and more direct. (path of least resistance). My other thought was to remove it and do a similar duct mod. out the area next to the fog lite, or ??? I also put some insulation between the coolant reservoir and the air box. Didn't notice much difference from that either. Insulating the bottom outside of the air box (3 layers) made some difference, but not near what the intake tube did. The bubble wrap insulation is one of those things you put on the dash to keep the sun out. I found one that is made of two rows of bubble wrap laminated between two layers of aluminum foil. It's easy to cut and work with, put does not lend itself to shaping unless your doing angles. I tried it around the inlet elbow but it looked like s--- so I took it off and made inlays of the stuff to go between the supports (see the pictures of the insulated duct) and then taped them in place with aluminum tape. It looks better, but still not the way I want it. Have to figure out how to make it look smooth and clean. I'll go out and take some pictures so you can get a look at how I did it.

[magnuman]

MAGNUM FORCE,
I just took a couple pix of the insulation I used, as well as the air box cover and tube cover I have just finished. I'll try it tomorrow and see if there is any more difference. One other thing I noticed was that some "heat soak" is retained inside the duct for longer periods than with the non insulated duct. Went out this morning and the garage temp. was 48 and the temp. in the intake tube before starting the engine was 64. Start up and drive a mile and it is at ambient or in some cases one degree less until it warms up. The insulated duct is definitely doing something. At the end of the month I'll be taking a 400 mile trip (highway, mountain and some level) and I'll really be able to check it out then.

[MAGNUM FORCE]

Hey Magnuman,

Thanks for the photos. It looks good. I may also try getting some adhesive backed heat barrier material from an exhaust shop. They use it for muffler heat shields. It's thinner and I think more malleable so it will hold its shape, and supposedly blocks out 80% of the heat.

What have you got going on in the exhaust dept?

[DEETER]

there was no problems after installation just un hook your battery so the computer can read the chip .the performance was very noticable.

[MAGNUM FORCE]

Here's the stuff: http://www.thermotec.com/products/full/14001/14001.html

http://www.thermotec.com/products/full/14001/14001.jpg

[DEETER]

the chip is for the mds hemi magnum/300c it was tested last week and sent to me from the factory,I talked to a tech about a month ago he told me call back and then sent it to me

[magnuman]

MAGNUM FORCE,
Let me know what kind of stuff you get from the muffler shop and if it looks better than the crap I have on elbow that goes to the throttle body. I used adhesive backed home heating and air conditioning insulation on the coolant reservoir and two of the three layers around the bottom of the air box. Haven't done anything with the exhaust yet. I am waiting for someone to come out with a set of headers with dyno performance increase data. I don't want or need more noise, so I haven't done the cat. back thing. I also feel the power gain per dollar is not worth it to me at this time.

[magnuman]

Great info. I see Thermotec has a lace up duct insulator. Wonder how well that works and if it can go around a 90 degree bend and still look descent.

[MattRobertson]

Hmmm. Thermotec also has an adhesive version of that heat barrier. $21.95 for a 12" x 24" piece that ought to be just about right to use on the K&N's alloy tube.

And they also have tape you can use on the elbow.

But that lace-up shield *is* mighty interesting. It should work on the K&N although I will have to pop a couple of holes for the bracket mount and the airflow sensor.

There's no heat-soak with the Typhoon (road tested it) but when it gets to be 100-degrees-plus around here in the summer I'd like all the help I can get.

[farhawk]

Computer programing for sure, I would like to run the 3.21 gear, with the steep 1st gear we have that would be sweet.

[Hemi31]

You guys looking to wrap the intake tube with something to insulate it should look into running header wrap.It's only about an inch wide,and if it can keep in 1200 degree heat I'm sure it can keep out 230 degree engine heat.It will probably look a lot better than scrunching up dynamat around the bend in the pipe.

[java r/t]

I have modified two LS1 engines to over 500 rwhp each in the past 7 years .... I can give you my take based on moding a late model EFI car.

Let's be real guys .... IAT relocation and or/ resiters to trick the PCM to read lower temperatures are a waste of time. The only benefit is giving you something to do on a Saturday afternoon thinking you are making your car faster. The only "real" benefit is to lean the car out a little bit but isn't a good thing to do if you live in the heat / humidity of the South. Detonation.

Cold air intake kits do work, the imporatant thing to remember is that they are a gain over stock .... just because you put your hand in the box and it "seems" to flow ok doesn't mean it is designed for optimum performance. The manufacturers are trying to keep engine noise down for the masses. Any time you can reduce bends, restirction and pick up clean air you will see a performance amd mileage gain. Cold air pick up from the front of the car is best or actually from the windsheild area (highest air pressure point on the car)

Gears? I agree 4:10 gears are a big bang for the buck, seems like 50 hp!! but get ready for gear whine ... I have done a lot of gear installs and no matter what you do, you will eventually have gear whine.

Cooler thermostat? Need that with a programmer and higher octane gas ... but I disagree that it would create PCM issues. The PCM would adjust, also, how would running a cooler engine ever be a bad thing?

Plug wires? I have two highly modified LS1's and didn't find any performance increases with plugs and plug wires until I started running nitrous. The individual coil packs do a good job of providing plenty of spark to the cylinders .. the wires are a little long on these motors but not so long that you are losing a lot of spark. Again, just another Saturday afternoon activity to make you feel like you are doing something.

Electric cooling fans, LOL, look in the compartment of any modern EFI car and you will see electric fans. No on that I know of runs off the crank any longer. Setting them to come on earlier would be a good thing, I am sure you could route a cooling fan on off switch if you can find the PCM wire.

Underdrive crank pullys are a good performance increase, but I would not recommend an underdrive for the alternator.
For me, what I want are some long tube headers, exhaust and programmer. I would be happy with another 30-40 rwhp with these mods.

[aries4life]

the bad thing about running a lower temp thermostat in these cars is it will be running it's warmup fuel maps. Open loop is it?

[mklein]

First off - Lousy throttle response - delayed badly
- Sam

If you want better throttle response...put on a performance CAI and exhaust. I use K&N and Borla (2-muffler) and am quite pleased with results.

New exhaust was what really improved throttle response.

[magnuman]

java r/t,
It appears that my rich/lean controller works. See Run 2 from this last week. Notice that the control vehicle's E.T./speed barely changed....mine was almost two tenths faster by dialing in the IAT to 76 degrees.
http://www.dodgetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69161
Granted, mine is quite different from the fixed resistors you buy on E-Bay. Mine is a variable potentiometer (range 0-50,000 ohms) and a single throw, double pole switch wired so I can dial in IAT temps. from 17-actual IAT degrees on the rich side, and 45-345 degrees on the lean side. It is only used for WOT runs, and reads IAT sensor at face value when turned off. Turn it all the up on the lean side and it throws a DTC code, so I won't go above about 150 degrees. As you see in the race results I only was able to do one run using this mod. Next time I go I am going to "experiment" with this some more, as well as the dry ice/water setup. The rest of the items you listed I agree with. I'd really love to get the gears. I see GSM is coming out with trans. and fan controller which should also help.
Oh, the corrected times to sea level are: Run 1, 14.93/93.72; Run 2, 14.75/95.57; Run 3, 14.46/97.7; Run 4, 14.6/96.55. The calculator used for conversion is at: www.smokemup.com.

[GreggK]

i say custom twin turbo setup.. each turbo putting out between 6 or 7 psi, custom cated 3 inch x pipe, dual 3" bassani exhaust with resonators. with 4.10-4.56 gearing. comp would be tuned already from the dyno tune from the turbo install

[stv9000]

Has anyone read anything on these grounding kits that are out there? My father has been building engines since he was 16. His racing boat has a RR Merlin engine with 14 carbs on it (1 per cylinder-try tuning that!). The first thing he said about the magnum
was "the grounding is crap. Improve that and you will see up to 5 hp increase" He would like to see magneto ignition on it. He is kinda old school but still he does alot of machine work for Kenny treamonts race cars. I would love to set him lose on this thing. He has some tricks you just don't find anyware.

[java r/t]

MM, sounds like you are using a similiar item I had on the TA ... dial rich or lean by percentage points for WOT and in between. I didn't really see much improvement on the dyno or track but it did help in adding fuel preventing detonation when we have hot humid days down south. But it sounds like it is working for you.

[magnuman]

java r/t,
I am not going by percentage points on mine....only actual (or manually adjusted) IAT being sent to the PCM. I always have my Scan Gauge hooked up and use it to "dial in" the desired temp. that is being sent to the PCM. I am currently on the hunt for an air/fuel meter that hooks up to the stock O2 sensors. I think I've found one, but have to verify with them if it will indeed work. That would take all the guesswork out of it. Can't wait to fool with it some more. One run doesn't really prove much. We'll see.

[java r/t]

are you going to take the AF at the exhaust exit or at the headers? You can use a meter from the stock O2 sensors ... Auto Meter C2 Series, 2 1/16" Electric Air Fuel Ratio (Lean-Rich) Works with most OEM and aftermarket oxygen sensors, the problem would be finding an inline wiring harness

[magnuman]

I was hoping to hook up a 4-way rotary switch so I could read any one of the four 02 sensors. I was also hoping to tap into them somewhere near the PCM, but I haven't researched the wiring diagram yet, and don't know if that will work. That's good info. though. Thanks!! Do you know where I can get one, and how much $$ they are?

[magnuman]

stv9000,
Tell us more about this grounding kit. Is he talking about chassis/engine grounding or ?? I use to race "in the old days" and never heard of this. We always had the chassis/engine grounded real well to the frame. Also, use to run Joe Hunt Vertex magnetos. They took about 10 hp to run though, since they were generating their own power for spark. Also, much more expensive than the coils on the Hemi's. They're only about $30 each from the dealer. I'd love to hear more about this though. Inquiring minds want to know.

[java r/t]

I was hoping to hook up a 4-way rotary switch so I could read any one of the four 02 sensors. I was also hoping to tap into them somewhere near the PCM, but I haven't researched the wiring diagram yet, and don't know if that will work. That's good info. though. Thanks!! Do you know where I can get one, and how much $$ they are?

check with Thunder Racing in Baton Rouge, thunderracing.com. I wonder if it would be better to tap into the direct wiring harness at the O2 sensors rather than at the PCM? You could make your own wiring harness if you can figure out what type of pin it is. Would need to make it inline so that the O2 sensors still report back to the PCM and to the AF guage.

Factory grounding is typically very good, not sure how you will lose HP through grounding. Grounding problems normally (in my experience) will not let you crank the engine or cause misfires, etc.

[java r/t]

also, ever consider Autotap?

[stv9000]

Magnuman as you know in any coil ignition system the voltage is on a curve
as rpm goes up the voltage will peak then start to fall off. Magnetos don't.
Voltage goes up and stays there, more like a straight line graph. This results in a hot spark across the rpm range. With todays technology I am not sure how close they are with computer controlled ignitions. As far as grounding yea sure the car is grounded well but if ran a #4 or #2 wire from the battery to the engine block and or the alternator you would see much less resistance and better current flow. One thing we have always done with any car we owned was to put truck battery wires in it. 10 - 15 below 0 these cars wouldn't turn over - they started ! The starter didn't seem to make 1 revolution before the plugs fired. I have to do more research on the grounding kit. I know it has larger gage wires and some kind of better regulator with it.

[magnuman]

Got you covered on this, stv9000. I use to run #0 arc welding cable for my battery cables from the back to the front. Don't know what size the Magnum runs from the rear battery, nor how good the grounding to the engine is. I think the coils are grounded with one of the pins on the primary plug, so that may not be an issue. I'll have to take a look. As for the coil build up, I think things are a lot different with the computer. I know by watching my Scan Gauge when I drive in town or on the highway, the timing is continually changing. There is also no change in RPM which tells me there is a lot more being changed as the timing changes. It's probably too much for my simple mind to comprehend though. Anyway, I am pretty sure that the coils don't saturate and build voltage like the old ones did when the points were closed. See what you've done now?? Now I'll have to get the shop manual out, and the search engine fired up, and do a little research. If I find anything out, I'll let you know.

[kupaa]

As far as the Jet chip I would suggest you visit the "general" page and under the thread "Performance CHip Voids Warranty". Iceman4ever has some good info there.

[SHAGG'N'MAGNUM]

I have a quick question. What does relocating the IAT do for the car and is it worth doing the mod for the gain?

[magnuman]

I think what will happen if you relocate the IAT sensor to the airbox, you'll probably get a slightly cooler reading, as the air will not be quite as suseptible to heat soak as it is on the tube near the engine. This will tend to richen the mixture at WOT (fuel injection in open loop mode). Under normal driving conditions (closed loop mode) there won't be any difference since the O2 sensors maintain the mixture at 14.7:1 air/fuel ratio.

[revdoctor]

I think what will happen if you relocate the IAT sensor to the airbox, you'll probably get a slightly cooler reading, as the air will not be quite as suseptible to heat soak as it is on the tube near the engine. This will tend to richen the mixture at WOT (fuel injection in open loop mode). Under normal driving conditions (closed loop mode) there won't be any difference since the O2 sensors maintain the mixture at 14.7:1 air/fuel ratio.

I agree. So why did DC put the sensor there?
I have an independent sensor a little closer to the engine than the IAT (it's clamped where the aircharger flex hose connects to the plastic pipe), and the effects of heat soak are amazing!!
This is NOT the real air temp: the radiation off the throttle valve & rest of the plumbing is having a significant effect on the reading.
Maybe I'll move my sensor closer to the inlet & see what the effect is.

[magnuman]

Hey Rev,
Small hijack first!! Who installed your Sways? How do you like them? Still haven't got the SC Tuner to work?
Now on to the IAT sensor. I haven't moved mine and probably won't. Since I am hearing that most hemi's run a little on the rich side, I think I'll opt for a little leaner mix at WOT. It doesn't make any difference in normal driving, as the mix is then controlled by the 02 sensors. I've also noticed on mine that with the "stock" IAT sensor (with the little plastic shroud around it), the IAT runs a little warmer also.....about 5-7 degrees. I know this because I broke that little shroud off when I changed the tube a while back, and that sensor (without shroud) ran about 5-7 degrees cooler. I think the shroud might either slow down, or swirl the air around the sensor probe. I don't believe there would be that much variable tolerance between sensors since they are controlled by resistance which should allow the manufacturer to build them to close tolerances.

[revdoctor]

Hey Rev,
Small hijack first!! Who installed your Sways? How do you like them? Still haven't got the SC Tuner to work?
Now on to the IAT sensor. I haven't moved mine and probably won't. Since I am hearing that most hemi's run a little on the rich side, I think I'll opt for a little leaner mix at WOT. It doesn't make any difference in normal driving, as the mix is then controlled by the 02 sensors. I've also noticed on mine that with the "stock" IAT sensor (with the little plastic shroud around it), the IAT runs a little warmer also.....about 5-7 degrees. I know this because I broke that little shroud off when I changed the tube a while back, and that sensor (without shroud) ran about 5-7 degrees cooler. I think the shroud might either slow down, or swirl the air around the sensor probe. I don't believe there would be that much variable tolerance between sensors since they are controlled by resistance which should allow the manufacturer to build them to close tolerances.

I have a buddy in the auto repair business who installed the sway bars. I like them a lot - combined with stickier summer tires, the car now corners very well. Re the SC issue, they found a way to fix "Florida Bob's" car, but they are slow to dole out the fix to me. I'm a patient man, and I bug them every couple of weeks.

I always thought the shroud on the IAT sensor was there to protect the sensor during handling and installation, but maybe it does have some thermal/aerodynamic effect. What I meant in my earlier post was not to change the position of the IAT sensor, but to change the position of my added sensor.

Going back a while, we were having fun trying to get the most bang for the buck on CAI's. Are you still running your super scoop triple walled insulated special? I'll have to post some pics of what I'm running, you would laugh your a$$ off! I started with a K&N Aircharger, hacked the bejesus out of my stock airbox to accept the K&N filter, creating airflow from both the standard location AND the top, but isolating the top feed from the hot engine compartment. And to top it off, I insulated the whole mess with aluminum foil clad bubble wrap! I don't know if I gained anything or not, but it was fun!

[magnuman]

JBA headers and the sways are about the only other things I am going to do for a while....at least until some more neat stuff comes out. After your comments, I'll probably do the sways next, now. Yes, I am still running my double wall, triple insulated CAI. It has two 3 in. ducts into the airbox and a 4 in. smooth interior wall duct out to the elbow, where it reduces to 3.25 in. into the throttle body. The way it is configured now:
--Two 3 in. inlets...the stock one and one from front of airbox to behind grill
--Daytona/SRT airbox lid. This is 4 in. outlet instead of the stock 3 in.
--Four in. ID duct with 1/4 in. insulated wall
--1/4 in. layer of aluminum clad bubble pack (windshield sun visor material)
--Five in. thin wall aluminum outer tube
--Another layer of aluminum clad bubble pack velcroed to itself

Works great. On yours, who cares what it looks like as long as it does the job? Mine isn't the prettiest either. I painted everything black, but could leave off the outer insulation and polish the aluminum tube, but again, who cares? I know I don't.

[revdoctor]

JBA headers and the sways are about the only other things I am going to do for a while....at least until some more neat stuff comes out. After your comments, I'll probably do the sways next, now. Yes, I am still running my double wall, triple insulated CAI. It has two 3 in. ducts into the airbox and a 4 in. smooth interior wall duct out to the elbow, where it reduces to 3.25 in. into the throttle body. The way it is configured now:
--Two 3 in. inlets...the stock one and one from front of airbox to behind grill
--Daytona/SRT airbox lid. This is 4 in. outlet instead of the stock 3 in.
--Four in. ID duct with 1/4 in. insulated wall
--1/4 in. layer of aluminum clad bubble pack (windshield sun visor material)
--Five in. thin wall aluminum outer tube
--Another layer of aluminum clad bubble pack velcroed to itself

Works great. On yours, who cares what it looks like as long as it does the job? Mine isn't the prettiest either. I painted everything black, but could leave off the outer insulation and polish the aluminum tube, but again, who cares? I know I don't.

Yeah, form over function. I don't care either, it's just funny to explain it to my golfing buddies who don't know or care why we enthusiasts do what we do!

[Dave05RT]

Wumscut,
There is a company out there that has been doing what you wished for years. Unfortunately, my hard drive is full and I can't think of the name.
I know it has the word "gear" in the name.
It's a device that attatches to the rear of the transmission and it's like another
overdrive so you can have low gears for performance and high gear for the highway.
Later
Herb

They are Gear Vendors. I haven't checked but I don't think they offer one for the 5sp auto. The price is also steep $2500+, but I think it would make a great addition for both power and economy since then you would have a 10 speed auto. THey would also handle anything you could throw at it since they are rated at 1200hp and 1000ftlb torque.

[smiley b]

i did the borla cat back frm mopar,jba headers,mopar cold air intake.quite happy with it all :cool:

[FL3JM]

I would like to see a computer program, its easy to install and will probably give more bang for the bucks.

By the way, has anyone tried the "Air Intake Blower" for the mag?
Will it increase performance or is it just crap? :)
If it is inefficient, it will probably eat more power than it provides to the engine.
http://www.mimousafiles.com/prods/952_b.jpg

Found here on eBay (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Air-Intake-Blower-Dodge-Magnum_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ38634QQihZ019QQi temZ8077090436QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V).

[gsjoe]

It looks like a big restrictor to me. Not only does the air have to go through a filter and a tube, it has to spin a fan too?

[FL3JM]

It looks like a big restrictor to me. Not only does the air have to go through a filter and a tube, it has to spin a fan too?

Err.. i dont think you quite understood how it works. :) It is not some kind of generator or something, its a fan inside that is driven by 12V current and uses 2.2 Amps. It sucks through the filter and pushes the air into the engine.

But ofcourse, if you shut it off it will probably cause some restriction i guess.

[djc208]

It would depend on the flow rate of the fan. Usually these things are useless at all but the slowest speeds. Suction losses along the intake are pretty small as most of the CAI dyno's have shown, so unless the blower can create a positive pressure in the intake it would be like trying to use a fan in the window of your car, helps when you're sitting still, useless any other time.
In all I doubt this is any more use than the "Tornado" air straighteners, more gimmic than performance.

[Dave05RT]

It is not only just a gimmick but it is dangerous to the engine. From what I understand these are nothing more than a fan used in rv for circulating air and if the are overspun which they probably will be since they don't move enough air the plastic fan blades will self destruct sending them directly into the intake and destroy parts . Don't buy these things they are a joke. :crazy:

[jonnyfingers]

The 5.7L has 8 coils,#1 coil fires #1 plug and one of #2's plugs and #2 coil fires the other #2 plug and fires #3 plug and so on,and you can get platinum plugs there in champion part # I will post it soon,can't remember right now,I have them in right now and they work good,dodge told me to take the out because of miss fires,dodge says that nascar stoped using them because of that,I have not had any misses or CEL.