Are there such creatures out there? If not, can anyone suggest a nice 4bbl chrome intake with matching carb for a stock 318. At the very least right now, a chrome air filter, the one that has the entire filter exposed with the top to hold it down.
Thanks
Speed Dragon
03-08-2009, 04:28 PM
Chrome intakes FTL :) You could have yours chromed. Personally I would go powdercoated instead, or polished aluminum.
moe7404
03-08-2009, 05:11 PM
i have worked on carter afbs, edelbrock afb clone sence 1965. sometimes carter afb, but allways e-brocks are not jetted right for most engines. i think i have put together an instruction set for mounting and jetting these carbs. i will look for it. if you want it i will send it, if i can find it. if i cant find it, ill type it up new. moe7404@att,net.
76D100
03-08-2009, 05:18 PM
Thanks, I do want to try to squeeze more mileage out of the poor girl, right now with the 2bbl I'm at 19-20, hopefully the smaller primaries on the 4bbl will help until I walk on it. I thought the chrome intake would match the alternator, valve covers and oil breather.
moe7404
03-08-2009, 07:11 PM
moe in wichita ks
there are some basics that fit most afb/e-brok apps.
the cable/linkage must not be in a bind, and must open the carb all the way with out sticking open. DO NOT SHORT CUT THESE TWO THINGS. do NOT use hose to go from fuel pump to carb, use the right size steel bake line, hose only at filter, and keep it as short as can. this is a SAFETY ITEM, you dont want it to look like a chevy do you? as far as jetting on the front jets/ rods go, dont change rods and jets at the same time. cause you cant guess at what the change is. change jets OR rods. also most e-brok carbs have rods that have to much size differance between cruise step and power step, in other words start out by changeing the rod to one that has the smallest step difference between cruise and power. this is my short instruction set, i have a longer ins set that shows how to change rods and jets and know how much you changed it. but its to long to post here.
76D100
03-08-2009, 07:35 PM
Hose? do you mean neoprene fuel line? Why not?
moe7404
03-08-2009, 07:51 PM
when hose goes bad, not right away but in 4-5 years, it will eather leek fuel, pressure side, or suck air, on the sucktion side of the fuel pump. any pump would rather suck air than fuel, or oil, if there is a small leek on the suction side, but the same size hole will not leek presure. but yes you do have to use hose between the engine and frame, but use as little as you have to.
volaredon
03-08-2009, 10:28 PM
when hose goes bad, not right away but in 4-5 years, it will eather leek fuel, pressure side, or suck air, on the sucktion side of the fuel pump. any pump would rather suck air than fuel, or oil, if there is a small leek on the suction side, but the same size hole will not leek presure. but yes you do have to use hose between the engine and frame, but use as little as you have to.
I could not agree more. rubber hose for extended length is just ASKING your truck to (eventually) catch on fire. I spent the $5 on a piece of 5/16" steel line and carefully bent it up correctly to go from the filter to the carb; I have a piece of hose ~3" long before the filter after the filter and from the newly formed line to my carb. If for NO Other reason, hose is too "floppy and can cet cut/caught up too easily and either kink or be cut w/o you knowing it til you see the ball'o' fire!
And I just went junking 2 days ago to get me a Carter TQ for afuture experiment on my truck and even got the steel line off that van that goes from the filter to the carb!
On your original Q, I have never seen a chrome intake available commercially for our small blocks but Edelbrock sells polished versions of their common intakes for aqbout 50% more than the same intakes as cast; to me a waste of money if you really want that look go buy a used aluminum 4 barrel intake, and a Dremel and do it yourself.
Speed Dragon
03-08-2009, 11:38 PM
i have worked on carter afbs, edelbrock afb clone sence 1965. sometimes carter afb, but allways e-brocks are not jetted right for most engines. i think i have put together an instruction set for mounting and jetting these carbs. i will look for it. if you want it i will send it, if i can find it. if i cant find it, ill type it up new. moe7404@att,net.
Think you could outline me a good setup for a stock 383 Hi-Po?
volaredon
03-09-2009, 12:02 AM
just thought of a great intake if you want to stay 2 barrel; Edelbrock made one (no more though, you gotta hunt down a used one) they made one called an SP-2P in both a 2 barrel version and a 4 barrel version; if MPG and low end (RPMs wise) is your game then hunt one down; I used to have a 4 bbl version but it went bye bye when I sold my last Diplomat. There have been more than usual of them on Ebay lately. (well a month ago anyway i have not looked at intakes there in about a month)
Get the 2 bbl version and your BBD Carter will bolt right on; 318-sized intake ports, long narrow runners; 2 plane; great for torque, which you need more than HP to get a truck like that rolling! especially with (IIRC) your saying that you have 2.71 gearing; but once moving, that makes for a GREAT highway gear; if you are in a relatively "flat" area. easier to install too, being lighter than that cast iron one; but with an alum intake DON'T use the "tin" intake gaskets; get the fiber ones (you might have to get them for a 4 BBL 318 to do that though)
76D100
03-09-2009, 01:04 AM
Sounds PERFECT, what is the search you use?
Flat area? Square middle of the prairies. The low end torque is also perfect for towing my big old boat.
THANKS!
bherder
03-09-2009, 01:16 AM
76' .... Yeah, chrome LOOKS bitchin' and all that.... But,
Chrome will discolor with heat after time (And rust also)
And more importantly, chrome plating on (Anything) holds heat IN .... For the most part, not a good thing.....
As Don says, you can polish up aluminum to damn-near look like chrome, but it's a LOT of work/$$ ....
3834B
03-09-2009, 07:42 AM
do NOT use hose to go from fuel pump to carb,
What's up with the paranoia of rubber fuel hose? All ruber hose is not created equal. Weatherhead makes hose rated at 350psi that will last a life time. Route it away from excessive heat, use cushion clamps to avoid rubbing and chaffing and sleep well.
Russell makes a hose called (Twist-Tite) that works great also. Modern day vehicles use hose on high pressure fuel injected systems. No big deal when done right and it is easy to work with.
moe7404
03-09-2009, 02:26 PM
you have been hanging around people that think that the factory cant do anything right. just cause you can take the factory cam out and put in an aftermarket cam and get it to go faster. doesnt mean the factory cant do anything right. think about if you manufactered a car and had to warrenty it for 5-8 years which would chose, hose or steel for a fuel line sorry to tell you but the factory does do some things right, fuel lines and brake lines are just two.
Speed Dragon
03-09-2009, 03:14 PM
Heh, that brings to mind a guy I knew once, was using rubber tranny line and worm clamps to connect brake lines on a C60 dump truck :O Sometime to think about next you see an old dumptruck behind you lol.
bherder
03-09-2009, 03:40 PM
Heh, that brings to mind a guy I knew once, was using rubber tranny line and worm clamps to connect brake lines on a C60 dump truck :O Sometime to think about next you see an old dumptruck behind you lol.
I'm glad I'm 3,000 miles away from ya... ;D
76D100
03-09-2009, 03:59 PM
Right now, neoprene is all Im running and I haven't had a problem with the line yet. in fact it saved my ass this summer past. My mech fuel pump had crapped out on me in the middle of a 1000km highway trip and luckily enough in a city before everything closed, fortunately I had enough excess to SAFELY jerry rig an electric in bypassing my mechanical pump.
How long will it take for the neoprene to degrade? How long for steel to rust?
Like said before, new vehicles use neoprene everywhere, whats wrong with upgrading one more thing? Besides, I have a fire extinguisher in my cab just in case. I want to build a CO2 halon style system for it eventually. Some "rubber" aluminum drilled lines attached to a bottle with thermocouples and manual switch.
I would stick a picture up however, its around -25 right now and I dont want to go outside to take one, perhaps tomorrow.
About that dump truck, the stuff cant be so bad if it can do that job...
3834B
03-09-2009, 04:21 PM
if you manufactered a car and had to warrenty it for 5-8 years which would chose, hose or steel for a fuel line sorry to tell you but the factory does do some things right, fuel lines and brake lines are just two.
76D100 is right. Modern vehicles use hose. Brake systems have hose as well. I just replaced four on my project truck.
The engineers at Edlebrock don't have a problem with a quality hose either. I put a Pro-Flo multi point fuel injection system on a SBC over ten years ago and it came with a high end 3/8 supply hose. That system used a Walbro fuel pump with an operating pressure of 50 PSI. That particular vehicle is still going and Edlebrock still makes that system today.
76D100
03-09-2009, 10:59 PM
Right now I'm looking in to the RPM intake but I cant tell what choke it is.
Can you guys suggest an intake/ carb package near bolt on with electric choke? I dont want to spend more around $600 and Im not in the mood for a cam and head job this summer. I just want more mileage with no loss if not an increase of power for towing. On the same note, heads and cam next year aren't out of the question.
Thanks.
Speed Dragon
03-09-2009, 11:59 PM
How long will it take for the neoprene to degrade? How long for steel to rust?
8-10 years for neoprene hose, the metal fuel lines on my '67 Coronet are still good. That's what, 40+ years? :)
Modern vehicles use hose. Brake systems have hose as well. I just replaced four on my project truck.
Brake system hose is completely different stuff from fuel hose. And newer vehicles use very little rubber/neoprene hose even in the fuel system, 12" at the most, usually more like 6-8" going from hard lines to fuel rails. I think you guys are confusing nylon line w/ neoprene hose. Nylon line is extensively used on newer vehicles, it doesn't rust, has a very long lifespan, and handles almost any type of fuel.
The engineers at Edlebrock don't have a problem with a quality hose either. I put a Pro-Flo multi point fuel injection system on a SBC over ten years ago and it came with a high end 3/8 supply hose. That system used a Walbro fuel pump with an operating pressure of 50 PSI. That particular vehicle is still going and Edlebrock still makes that system today.
I'm sure they gave you EFI hose, which is better and lasts longer, it's made better to handle the higher pressures. However, 20 years will kill it too. Quite a few FWD Mopars have burned up due to 15-20 year old fuel hose springing a leak and dripping onto the hot exhaust manifold. It's a turbo car's worst fear :)
Right now I'm looking in to the RPM intake but I cant tell what choke it is.
Can you guys suggest an intake/ carb package near bolt on with electric choke? I dont want to spend more around $600 and Im not in the mood for a cam and head job this summer. I just want more mileage with no loss if not an increase of power for towing. On the same note, heads and cam next year aren't out of the question.
Thanks.
Grab the RPM if you can, it's one of the best intakes out there right now. It has a very broad power band, will work good on a stock engine and even better when you upgrade the top end. Grab a AFB or Eddy 600cfm carb to go with it and it will be a very versatile, easily tunable set-up.
76D100
03-10-2009, 01:25 AM
Should I be concerned with the difference of the air gap and standard RPM? It says "No provision for exhaust-heated choke" I'm guessing that means no electronic choke. This is a rather important feature around where I live weather getting as cold and warm as it does.
Jegs suggests the Performer 600 with the intake, how do the manual chokes work? Especially with extreme cold weather?
What bad things are to be said about the Performer?
3834B
03-10-2009, 04:27 AM
And newer vehicles use very little rubber/neoprene hose even in the fuel system, 12" at the most,
Where are you getting these numbers? Manufacturer's have been using rubber and plastic fuel lines for years.
The Econoline's of the mid eighties had molded plastic lines from the in tank transfer pumps right up to the high pressure frame mounted pump and from that point to the fuel rail it was rubber hose. That was a 45 psi system. The current Econoline's are fuel hose the entire length.
Mercedes diesel's use rubber and plastic right up to the high pressure commonrail pump.
There's just two examples in which I tried to provide foreign/domestic and diesel/gas on OEM equipment. I've already mentioned the aftermarket such as Edlebrock. The list could go on.
I'm sure they gave you EFI hose, which is better and lasts longer, it's made better to handle the higher pressures. However, 20 years will kill it too. Quite a few FWD Mopars have burned up due to 15-20 year old fuel hose springing a leak and dripping onto the hot exhaust manifold. It's a turbo car's worst fear
I'm sure that is what they gave me too. If you read back I plainly stated to use a high end hose like Russell or Weatherhead. The Russell is rated for 250 PSI and the Weatherhead is rated at 350 PSI. This is way overkill as far as the PSI rating.
Not sure of the stats on Mopars burning down because of fuel leaking on manifolds or where you got them but it would be my guess (and only a guess) the more problematic areas as far as fires would certainly be there wiring.
I simply replaced my steel line and all the splices to do just that, eliminate the splices from the tank to the pump inlet. Perfectly safe and acceptable practice when done right.
Speed Dragon
03-10-2009, 06:29 AM
The hose they use is steel braided, ever try cutting one? :)
Anyway, my point is not that he shouldn't use rubber fuel hose, I'm using it myself on mine. I have 12' of neoprene hose running from my tank to the original steel line under the cab, and another section from the pump to the carb. My point is to keep an eye on it, check it every few months for abrasions, cracks (which probably won't appear for a year or so), etc. You can cover it in plastic wire loom to give it some added protection. But steel and plastic/nylon line will always be superior.
And no, wiring is not a common fire hazard on the FWD's, only on Dodge trucks :D
Speed Dragon
03-10-2009, 06:34 AM
Should I be concerned with the difference of the air gap and standard RPM? It says "No provision for exhaust-heated choke" I'm guessing that means no electronic choke. This is a rather important feature around where I live weather getting as cold and warm as it does.
Jegs suggests the Performer 600 with the intake, how do the manual chokes work? Especially with extreme cold weather?
What bad things are to be said about the Performer?
It means you can't use the thermostat-type choke that is used on the factory intake, the one that bolts to the intake and has a rod that runs up to the choke plate lever. In essence, it means you have to run an electric or manual choke.
I wouldn't spend the extra for the Air Gap unless you are serious about making power.
The Performer is good for stock engines, all accessories, smog equipment, EGR etc can be hooked up. If you just going to upgrade to an RV cam and run stock unported factory heads, it'll work fine.
moe7404
03-10-2009, 04:57 PM
on the 383 i dont know if you are talking about an old 383 or a newer 383. you need a 4 bdl carb, at lest 625 cfm not over 800 cfm unless it has a BIG cam. if you use a e-brock int manafold and its a spread bore you will need e-brocks plate and two gaskets if you use a square bore carb. with a stock oil system dont go very much over stock rpm.
76D100
03-10-2009, 07:02 PM
A little wile ago I bought "The Mopar Six pack engine hand book" I want a 340 six pack in the next five years or so. There is a formula in there talking about proper CFM rates for engines, the formula it gives is:
Carb CFM = CID x Max RPM / 3456
Example given using a 440
Carb CFM = 440x 6000 / 3456
Carb CFM = 764
With the 383 that would be:
CFM = 383 x 6000 / 3456
CFM = 664.93 for a 383 @ max 6000 RPM
The book says that the six packs which produce 1000 CFM which would normally not work, works because of how they are staged, opened and metered. Bla bla bla UFI for this thread.
If you are interested, formula for fuel consumption:
BSFC: Brake Specific Fuel Consumption
BFSC = Fuel consumed (in pounds per hour) to horse power produced (measured on dyno)
Typical ratio for gas is .5 pounds per hour, super charger closer to .6 lb/h If you use methanol, double consumption.
Ex:
Fuel consumption for 600hp 440
FC = 600 x .5 lb/h = 300 lb/h
The book has PILES more info, next might be small block building, the tranny book I just bought isn't what I thought (going in 833 post).
Speed Dragon
03-10-2009, 11:09 PM
on the 383 i dont know if you are talking about an old 383 or a newer 383. you need a 4 bdl carb, at lest 625 cfm not over 800 cfm unless it has a BIG cam. if you use a e-brock int manifold and its a spread bore you will need e-brocks plate and two gaskets if you use a square bore carb. with a stock oil system dont go very much over stock rpm.
Sorry, it's (supposedly) a stock 383 Hi-Po engine, I haven't checked the numbers but I'm assuming no newer than a '69 or '70 engine. It has a hydraulic cam. Stock intake, I have a Eddy 1405 on it. Points ignition still. I just got it running a few weeks ago, carb seemed a tad rich but it could just be cause it's not run in a while, also have no idea where the timing is at yet.
moe7404
03-11-2009, 04:56 PM
if its a factory hi-po older than 69 it comes with a 4 bdl carb. 68 or newer will be a avs older than 68 will be a afb. so if yours is a 2bdl it is not a hi-po. also hi-po and standard the engines are different colors. i THINK standard is blue-green color, hi-po is red or orange, not real sure.
you would be better off to find a oem set up. at least find a factory manual and set up the jets like a the factory.
Speed Dragon
03-12-2009, 03:35 PM
Well it's kinda old and rusty looking right now :) It does have a 4bbl intake on it, I dunno where you got the notion it was 2bbl lol, it has a factory 4bbl intake and a Eddy 4bbl. IIRC it has 120-398 (.098") jets all round and 7347 rods.
moe7404
03-12-2009, 05:42 PM
i just found my 1967 chrysler manual. a 383 has eather a 4298s manual trans carter, or a 4299s auto carter, 4 bdl. the 4298 has pri main jet .089 dia inchs, secondary jet .0689 , std rod 16-404. the 4299s has a .089 primary jet, secondary jet is .0689, with a std rod 16-475. on the pimary side chrysler used two styles of rod/jet set up. one had a flat cover with a short rod with two steps and a short jet. the other had a domed cover with a long rod with three steps with a tall jet. what ever you do do NOT mix these two systems. i will try to find my carter info to get size of the rods, i know i have it but not sure where it is. firstly i dont recomend taking out the main jets. there is NO advantage to taking them out. but if you must you MUST use a screwdriver that has stright sides and fit the jet slot good, if it doesnt come out easly DONT force it. i have a trick, e-mail me moe7404@att.net how i got it my head you had a 2bdl, i cant understasnd, sorry. i may have gotten confused with an other thread.
Speed Dragon
03-13-2009, 12:37 AM
Lol no worries. I have had the carb completely torn down, including the jets, and cleaned it and put it back together. So everything will come apart easily. I'll have to go buy a Strip Kit I guess, I don't have any spare jet or rods, unless I rob them from my other carb lol. BTW the Eddy uses the 2-step rods.
thejudges69
03-13-2009, 10:25 AM
i have a question regarding the carb change. i just purchased a new 600 cfm carb from summit.....its there own brand, new on the market. however i noticed that the kickdown rod from the tranny won't reach anymore. what do you guys do in this matter. is there and aftermarket cable or do you not need it?
Also i'm in favor of rubber fuel line as well. thats all we use on our peterbilts and they come factory to me they proven there worth. they are much easier to work with and easy to replace. We have them in truck made in the early 70's and still running strong. i think it more of an opion based article. some prefer steel over rubber and vice verse. however i would see the good use for steel from the pump up, just because of all the stuff rubber can get into. but from the tank to the pump i can see rubber being a good option.
also where do most guys put there filters? my is right after the fuel pump before the carb i thought it would be better in the frame before the pump.
76D100
03-13-2009, 12:43 PM
Mine are all before my fuel pump. You would think you might want to keep as much crap out of your pump as you can.
moe7404
03-13-2009, 05:15 PM
again like i say look at how the factory ( chrysler ) does it. pumps push better than pull.
3834B
03-13-2009, 08:28 PM
Have to agree with moe here. Pumps are made to be pushers. The best case scenerio is as close to the liquid source as possible. With a diaphram style pump it is not as critical though. Also debris is not as critical. There is a filter on the pick-up tube in the tank. Leave the filter post pump and all will be well. Quality hose is also acceptable post pump when proper routing is considered.
3834B
03-13-2009, 08:33 PM
look at how the factory ( chrysler ) does it.
moe, I wasn't to happy how they (Chrysler) did it on my 24 valve Cummins. The death of that fuel system was the location of the lift pump (ENGINE) sucking it's guts out to get the fuel from the tank located back on the frame rail. I think you would agree.
To set the record straight that was just not a Chrysler problem.
moe7404
03-13-2009, 08:54 PM
yea and The engineers at Edlebrock live in california.
moe7404
03-13-2009, 08:59 PM
well you do have a point. i have been driving chryslers from 1965. one time a chevy guy was trying to tell me all the bad things about chryslers. i told him that i have driven WAY more chryslers than he has and i can tell him LOTS more bad things about chryslers than he can tell me. after that he didnt have much to say.
