clutch question

[Megunticook]

I was pushing some very heavy, wet snow this week, truck was really working hard, when I got to an incline it seemed like the clutch started slipping. Well, you tell me...the engine was running at maybe 1700 rpms the whole time but the truck itself slowed down to a crawl (I was in second gear, low-range).

There was no unusual noise or smell, but if the motor is turning at a constant speed and the driveline speed changes, assuming you haven't changed gears, then the clutch is slipping, right?

I had the clutch replaced by a shop in 2002. Been plowing every year since then, which I know can be tough on a clutch.

There was one point the other day, when plowing, where I tried to shift from 1st gear to reverse (standing still, of course), and it felt like the transmission wasn't disengaging. It took quite a few tries before I finally managed to take it out of first--scared the crap out of me for a minute.

Am I at the critical stage? Or will there be clear warning signs that total failure is imminent?

I would love to get through the rest of the winter and deal with this in the warm weather.

I presume I can replace this myself?

p.s. RockAuto has a Beck/Arnley clutch kit, matches the specs for my truck in the FSM (as far as I can tell, anyway), on wholesaler closeout for $68 (part #0616085). Is this a quality kit? I know zilch about clutches...

[B-300]

First check to see that there is free play (~1") at the pedal when using your hand to push the pedal.... If there is no freeplay the clutch wil slip.
As the clutch wears the freeplay will become smaller until there is none then slippage will occur.

[Megunticook]

There is still freeplay there...

[acton mike]

this does not sound good

if you were/are having trouble getting the transmission in and out of gear, this usually means the clutch is not disengaging and that often means a problem with
linkage or the throw-out bearing

you did not mention if your truck has hydraulic or mechanical clutch operation

if the clutch were slipping as badly as you say then the stink of burning friction material would be very strong

now , having said that - leaking seals and resulting oil on the clutch will cause slippage as well

I am afraid you will have to drop the transmission/transfer case to check this out

it sounds like you have cooked the clutch; perhaps sauteed in gear oil and a new clutch and throw out bearing are in view

think of it as doing your bit to get the economy moving again

take a good look for signs of oil leakage and be sure there is not a bend in the transmission input shaft and mend any problems before you out it back together- otherwise you will be taking it apart again real soon

pull the flywheel off and check the crankshaft seal for leaks and get the flywheel re-faced if there is any bluing on it

One other thing; if you have oil leaks on the engine near the back, oil could be running down onto the bell housing and it MIGHT get through the engine/bellhousing seam and het onto the flywheel/clutch


you have a little work ahead of you my freind - keep the faith

[Megunticook]

OK--couple questions then:

1. Should I go ahead and order that Beck/Arnley clutch kit that's on special from Rock Auto? At least that would ease some of the pain not spending $200+. I installed some Beck/Arnley brakes on my wife's Subaru, seemed like decent quality stuff, but I'd love confirmation of that from somebody.

2. Can I wait until plow season's over (probably have 3-4 more storms) to do this, or is this clutch ready to completely give out any minute now?

3. What else do I need in terms of parts?

Thanks!

[Megunticook]

if the clutch were slipping as badly as you say then the stink of burning friction material would be very strong y
I know that smell and I was not smelling it when this happened. So I'm wondering if the clutch was really slipping or if something else was going on. Maybe my wheels were spinning a little bit, but it didn't seem like it at the time.

Are there some tests you can do to determine if a clutch is bad or not?

Hate to go through all this trouble unecessarily

[3834B]

Are there some tests you can do to determine if a clutch is bad or not?

About the easiest test for slippage is put the truck in a higher gear like maybe third and try to take off using very moderate throttle. The truck should want to stall. If the clutch is actually bad and slipping this act should make that event happen.

Mike covered everything pretty well. You never stated if it is a mechanical or hydraulic clutch. If it's mechanical I would make sure there is an 1/8"-1/4" free travel in the release bearing. I think most hydraulic clutches run zero clearance.

If you have an assistant have them push the clutch while you watch the linkage, fork, release bearing and clutch cover. Usually if you have a broken cover the clutch pedal will not feel right. Always chock the wheels and have the brake on.

As mentioned check for signs of cantamination i.e. oil possibly on the clutch/flywheel. Believe it or not shooting Ajax or Comet on a wet clutch will buy time.

Plowing is harsh on a clutch and seven years might be taking it toll at this point. Changing a clutch is not rocket science and the only special tool you would need is an alignment shaft that could be bought at most parts stores. They are made of plastic.

[Megunticook]

Thanks for the info. I'm pretty sure this is a mechanical clutch.

Would you be satisfied with that Beck/Arnley kit? Sounds like it includes an alignment tool and a throwout bearing too, so a damn good deal for $68 (looks like this kit normally runs $130-180 based on other online prices).

I guess I shouldn't complain about getting 7 years out of the clutch given that I plow with the truck. Not sure I'm looking forward to dropping that n.p. 435 tranny (looks like it weighs a ton), but I guess it's a chance to learn something new and r&r the tranny--may as well do the 205 t-case as long as I'm at it (they're divorced).

[3834B]

Megun, I think I would go with a (Luk) brand clutch. They are the industry standard by most accounts. Have no experience with the Beck/Arnley brand but for $68.00 it likely has (Made in Ching Chong) wrote all over it. Not certain that heavy wet snow would like that.:D

[cribbs74]

Megunticook,

I have used Beck/Arnley clutches in my vehicles for years without issue although my clutches don't see the abuse yours do as I don't plow. I believe I have one in my truck right now actually. You may want to go high quality on your application

I can say the NP435 is a fairly heavy tranny, I want to say 145lbs. That's another reason I went to an A833 although for plowing you have the right trans for the job. I imagine it wouldn't be too awful bad with a trans jack. I did it with a buddy using good old fashioned manual labor and it was awkward to say the least.

Unless your clutch mechanism has been fiddled with over the years you definitely have a mechanical clutch, I think they went to hydraulic sometime in the mid-late 80's.

I usually notice clutch slip when I am in a higher gear and I try to accelerate hard FWIW, also sometimes if you are resting on a funny angle the tranny won't disengage, I've had that happen before. If that has happened to you more than just once I would suspect the clutch assy. Good luck with this.

[bherder]

Not sure I'm looking forward to dropping that n.p. 435 tranny (looks like it weighs a ton)

Hee hee ... Getting it out is the easy part. Getting it back in, is where the fun begins...
(Ahh, the fond memories of laying under a rig with a greasy hunk of cast iron sitting on my chest, while I'm trying to wiggle the thing back in.. ;) )

Make sure ya also change the pilot bushing. You usually need a slide hammer type tool to get the old one out.

[Megunticook]

Have no experience with the Beck/Arnley brand but for $68.00 it likely has (Made in Ching Chong) wrote all over it. Not certain that heavy wet snow would like that.:D
That's not the normal price, it's a wholesaler closeout special. I checked prices online and this kit seems to run more along the lines of $150 normally, saw it as high as $190.

But I definitely believe in paying more for quality parts...just every once in a while quality parts are available at a discount, so it's always nice to grab one of those opportunities...

[Megunticook]

I think I'd better investigate my clutch a bit more before I start spending a bunch of money on parts--it felt just fine yesterday when I did a little snow cleanup (before the next storm comes this weekend!). I may be jumping the gun here...

[B-300]

Beck/Arnley was a distributor of parts and probably still is. Never had a problem with there parts back in the day when there focus was on import car parts.

[acton mike]

If you do decide to replace the clutch and you are working without the benefit of a hoist, try to get the vehicle as high up off the ground as is safely possible using jack stands that are strong enough to support the weight - not cinder-blocks and the like

a transmission jack can be rented inexpensively and one of those will make life easier and safer; wrestling a transmission and a transfer case that have been in a while will be like wrestling with a greased pig

a trolley jack will be helpful as well to support the engine while the gearbox/transfer case is out of the truck; use a piece of wood as a spacer so that you do not damage the oil pan

an assistant is very helpful; do not depend on you wife or girlfriend; this could be a filthy job and the ladies tend not to like filthy jobs; unless you have a very special lady

Beer - yes - but after the job is done

and - check the flywheel - get it re-surfaced if it shows any sings of having been abused