86 318 2 to 4 bbl swap

[beatersdigest]

Hey guys-
I am considering an Edelbrock carb and manifold swap on my 318. I am looking for more power without substantially dropping mileage. The motor is stock and runs great, but the OEM carb is a real doorstop and has very little potential. I also live in Las Vegas, so the truck has to pass Smog inspection. Let me know what you think.

Manifold:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=EDL-3776&FROM=MG
Carb:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=EDL-1400&FROM=MG

[charlie1935]

I think those would be a good choice. Also ask Summit if they are CARB approved. I think they are but not positive. :gr_patrio

[beatersdigest]

I think I'd be OK on the CARB approval. The EDL 1400 carb has EGR hookup and is designed for emission vehicles. I also put a new magnaflow cat on my truck so Smog checks shouldn't be a problem.

[Speed Dragon]

Should be fine, I'd expect around 12-15 mpg (10-less if you're lead-footed ;) )

[DiverDwnPowrRam]

get a quadrajet and you will be happy on the gas savings and happier when you need to put your foot into it.

[Speed Dragon]

Fooey on Quads :p They do seem to be good, I dunno about better mileage though. I had a Chevy 2500 w/ a 350 and QuadraJet on it once, ran great but it still only got around 15 mpg.

[DiverDwnPowrRam]

I can appreciate what you are saying "Speed" and i respect you as my Dodge Brother...but is there something in that nick of yours...Speed?

[beatersdigest]

My experiences with the quadrajet and all things Holley haven't been good. In this case I don't see the superiority of the quadrajet over the Edelbrock. However, I do want the better overall setup so I do appreciate the input.

[Speed Dragon]

I can appreciate what you are saying "Speed" and i respect you as my Dodge Brother...but is there something in that nick of yours...Speed?

:o lol Nah, I'm just a Mopar loyalist, Quadra's are GM and therefore taboo :tdwn:
In all fairness, QJ's work great when built right, and many people, both w/ GM's and Dodges, swear by them. They are supposed to be great offroad carbs I think. I've actually never been into one yet, maybe if I did I'd be less critical :) I know the electronic ones from the 80's always gave problems, probably where my dislike for them stems from.

[beatersdigest]

Here is a Holley 4 BBL I found at Summit:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=HLY-0-81851S&view=1&N=700+400178+4294919007+4294891681+4294902726+1051 506942+4294902720+4294902670+4294902719+4294902725 +4294785105

It compares pretty closely to the Edelbrock 1400. 600 CFM is plenty for my setup and I still have emissions to worry about. Unfortunately this Holley is a hundred bucks more than the Edelbrock. I cannot tell if it is worth that much more $$. :dunno:

What do ya'll think?

[DiverDwnPowrRam]

thats the truck avenger..some swear by them...I have one brand new in the box that Holley sent me as a replacement for the "POS" i was sold before. Seriously i know money is tight with alot of folks but going to the J yard and getting a Quad for $15 and modifying it was alot more satisfying to me. I think with the book I bought (Cliff Ruggles), the new jets, two micro drill bits and the bronze collars to tighten up the plates...all for under $125. The Truck Avenger ...new Dec 2006 was $363 from AutoZone....you can get them new off of Ebay for alot less.

[DiverDwnPowrRam]

I just noticed that you are running a 318...the Quad maybe too big for you. I think Speed and some of the boys were talking that 450-550cfm would be better for your application.

[Speed Dragon]

Well, you could probably still use the Quad, the spread-bore carbs are good like that. You could probably nab a good one off a 305 Chevy or 307 Olds, and it'd be pretty close to the right jetting and such. Just make sure it has no electric plugs sticking out of it ;)

[DiverDwnPowrRam]

yes do exactly as speed says and tell them ..even if it came from a Dodge..That it comes off a mid 80s Chevy...should make it alot cheaper. Unless you have scum bag j yard people like I have.

[beatersdigest]

Thanks fellas. Speed and dvrdwn it sounds like you guys are well versed with carbs and such. Every CFM application guide I have found suggests 500 CFM for a 318 with a 5000-5500 RPM redline. Despite that, I feel pretty good about 600 CFM because later this year I plan to add a mild cam and headers. At that point the extra CFM will be put to use. Does that make any sense?

[volaredon]

I just bought a 625 CFM Carter AFB via Ebay for my 318 2 to 4 swap; I've used these same carbs on 318s before with decent results; except for 1 but I think that case was just an overly tired motor that was overdue for a rebuild; I'd like to find a 500 CFM version of this carb with all the hose nipples (I got the EGR compatible one) but I don't think Carter made it in a 500 version. Maybe find a 500 and put the top off this carb onto it? (I could give a shyt about EGR but do want the bowl vent and canister hookup)
in my case I am not swapping the cam but I am going with a set of Magnum heads. (I have an 83 D 250)

[beatersdigest]

What do I do if I buy a non-EGR carb for my EGR 318?

[volaredon]

well that's easy; just don't hook up the EGR. If you want "extra" insurance make a block off plate. I like to use sheetmetal, cut to the shape of the EGR valve (only put the stud holes in NOT the other 2 holes as the intake has) and sandwich it between the EGR valve and the intake; new gasker between the sheet metal block off and the intake or you may have a vacuum leak.

[volaredon]

a related q; what do you guys think of the Holley Economster series of carbs? I just acquired 2 of them at a swap meet; I'm gonna stop by the parts store and check into "kit" availability.

[beatersdigest]

Will I do any harm to my motor if I go from EGR to no EGR? I have considered the performer RPM air gap manifold to go with the new carb and it is non-EGR.

[volaredon]

Harm to the motor? NO! Get rid of a bunch of un needed vacuum lines, etc YES!

[Speed Dragon]

Won't hurt a thing.

[beatersdigest]

Without EGR will I be able to pass emissions?

[Speed Dragon]

Not a visual probably, but a sniffer test shouldn't be a problem if the engine is in good shape.

[beatersdigest]

I really appreciate the info guys. After your advice and after visiting with a Summit rep on the phone: I have narrowed it down to two Edelbrocks: the Performer 500CFM and the Thunder AVS 500 CFM. Apparently, even with a cam and headers in the future, 500 CFM's is plenty until I dramatically increase RPM redline or displacement. It's always nice to learn from those who know what they're talking about. Maybe some day I will too :D.

Here are the two carbs:
Performer:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=EDL-1403&N=700+400065+4294925239+4294839063+4294919007+4294 891681+4294902720+4294785256+4294902670+4294902717 +115&autoview=sku
Thunder AVS:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=EDL-1801&N=700+400065+4294925239+4294839063+4294919007+4294 891681+4294902720+4294785256+4294902670+4294902717 +115&autoview=sku

As always let me know what you think.

[Speed Dragon]

Regular Performer should be all you need.

[volaredon]

That's exactly what I was looking for for my 318 but can't afford a new one at this time so I get to cross my fingers and hope that the 600 version of the AFB "Performer" I bought used (supposedly only slightly, and recently too) does not turn out to be crap. I figgered the 500 would be plenty as well. Your stock air filter housing won't work, unless you had a 4 BBL on the truck in the 1st place.

[beatersdigest]

Cool. I will start saving my money for the Performer. Thanks for the direction.

As far as air cleaners/housings go, Amsoil makes a nice setup like K&N, Check this out:

https://www.amsoil.com/products/ea_filters/EaAR_Photos_and_Specs.pdf

I like the EaAR2104 model.

[Delray Dude]

A hint on passing emissions:


3 ounces of Acetone per 1 gallon of gas will greatly reduce the emissions.

You can get the Acetone at Home Depot for about 15 bucks a gallon.

I'd add the Acetone to the gas a few days before going in to get it good and mixed.

Don't go overboard on the Acetone, but I've seen mixes as high as 8 oz per gallon too.


Adding Acetone also makes the motor run really nice and smooth too!

[beatersdigest]

Thanks for the hint on the acetone. All the test in Las Vegas involves is the tailpipe probe. I passed easy even with old gas and disintegrated converters when I first bought thew truck.

Since then I have put on a magnaflow converter and new plugs so I am probably good to go even without EGR.

[volaredon]

Check your local junk yards; I've seen them more on GMs and Furds there not too many "performance parts" on Mopars in the yard; but I just got a Performer Intake AND carb (1405; non emission and manual choke) from an 86 truck 318, for $50, along with my tool bucket full of "incidentals" just YESTERDAY. I had to pull it myself though (so what) The carb is all free (no seized shafts, etc) is cruddy, but a great rebuild candidate; many kits on Ebay, ~$25-ish. May even run as is with a good washdown with a can of spray Gumout. But I have an emission, elec choke AFB (not much difference btw Edelbrock and AFB) on its way via Ebay that I plan on using on this truck.