starter all done?

[Megunticook]

OK, so I installed a rebuilt NAPA "Premium" line starter 2 falls ago. Since last spring, about every ninth or tenth time I go to start the thing, I get a "click" but no crank. After a bunch of tries, it will suddenly come to life. The last couple times, I tried tapping the starter with a rubber mallet, and both times it immediately cranked the next time I turned the key after the mallet treatment.

So...is this a clear indication that the starter itself is history and should be replaced? Is there any other reasonable possibility?

And how exactly does jarring the body of the starter restore it?

I'm tempted to give up on rebuilts and go for one of those new starters from Rock Auto. I think they're Beck Arnley, maybe, cost about $130 but if it's the last time I ever have to fuss with my starter it's worth it...

[locogk]

take it back and napa also sells beck starters

loco

[Megunticook]

take it back and napa also sells beck starters
I think the NAPA starter is well out of its warranty period. The Beck starter is far cheaper at Rock Auto.l

[locogk]

never hurts to check there were times when i worked at napa we took them back even out of warranty

[B-300]

I would expect it to last more than 2 years if rebuilt properly.... I had one last over 10 years and 90,000 miles on my '78 van from Grand auto which was bought by Kragen now there wearing Pep-boys uniforms.
Jarring the starter wil cause the brushes to contact when worn.
As a test to eliminate the neutral start switch and ignition switch put a one end of a jumper cable across both of the cables and thump it next time it acts up.

[cribbs74]

Doe your starter have a built in solenoid? I thought the solenoids were on the fender. Maybe that's a relay I'm thinking of.The hammer trick is usually an indication the solenoid is starting to stick.

[GHS]

My premium NAPA rebuilt starter lasted about a week. They happily replaced it, and the next one lasted about 1000 miles. Never again will I buy a rebuilt starter from a chain. I'll take them to a local rebuilder so I can tell them what I want, or I'll buy new.

I now have a new mini-starter on my truck, and it starts instantly...before it even turns one revolution.

[bherder]

Ed, FUNNY that you should mention that.....

My 'work truck' (One of three) a Furd Ranger, (I have no say about what the town buys..) has been getting crap-ass starters for about two years now. ALL NAPA Premium rebuilds.

Finally, after the THIRD rebuild in TWO years, I pulled it and walked into NAPA and told the manager, that I was tired of their shit-hook rebuilds. I wanted a brand-new starter.

The manager, who I'm pretty good friends with, kinda' pulled me off to the side and told me that they've been having a lot of probs with their 'rebuild' place (Wherever THAT might be ... Probably 'Pedro' in Bakersfield who doesn't give a rat's ass..) But he was pretty embarrassed that I'd gone through 3 starters in TWO years.
The good part is, the guy CARES about what he sells... Bad part is he knows he's sold crap for the last couple years.. BUT he made it 'right'....

But I was having the same probs as you pretty much describe... 19 times out of 20 ... It would fire up no prob... But there would be that DEAD SPOT where it wouldn't start, unless I banged on it with a hammer (I'm not so gentle... I used an 18" pipe wrench..)

End result was, he gave me a brand NEW starter and exchanged the old 'rebuilt' one straight-across... Can't complain about that...

What I'm worried about is ... The BRAND NEW one ... CLEARLY on the box says "MADE IN CHINA"

We may be 'good', we may be 'screwed' , I just don't like the way the looks of this is headed....

[Megunticook]

Alright, I'll pull the POS, walk into NAPA, slam it down on the counter, give my best Clint Eastwood squint, and say "who's the fella sold me this piece of ___?"

Seriously, I'm pretty sure I have the receipt, it's worth a try. It's not the first NAPA starter I've put in that truck either...and there was another brand I put in before that. Ridiculous.

Just wanted to make sure that the "hammer tap" methodology means the starter itself is gone (as opposed to a bad ground, poor cable connection, etc.).

Thanks--wish me luck.

[mojavemark]

I've always had good luck with Advance Auto {or Parts America, or what ever they are calling themselves these days**starters. Never had to take one back yet.

[fins2fuselage]

M-Cook,

I rebuild my own starters and alternators. There are still a few places in this country which supply the rebuilding industry; I use the one in Logan, West Virginia called "EMS" -- 800-697-6070. Years ago, I got my "foot in the door" pretty easily because I work in the rebuilding industry (carburetors), but I bet that they would sell to just about anyone -- especially now! BTW, they will also rebuild electrical components for you or sell them to you with exchange. The prices are reasonable and the quality seems very good, but it does of course involve some "down time".

I have had no longevity problem when rebuilding my Mopar starters (thus far), but I rebuilt the Mitsubishi-sourced starter on my '88 Jeep in 2005 and I have had nothing but problems with failed solenoids ever since. The solenoid was first replaced in 2005 (when I originally built the starter), then in 2007 and then again this year. Grr . . .

The Mitsu is a good high-torque starter (I bet some Dodges use 'em) and I don't blame the design; rather, I will bet that the failure's source is the problem about which Bherder so often (and correctly) complains: "Hecho en Chine" ("Made in China").

Your symptoms sound a lot like those of my Jeep, so I am guessing that it is in fact the solenoid. That said, I don't know where to advise you to buy a reliable one. The solenoid which failed in two years came from EMS; the one which failed in one year came from -- where else? -- NAPA. They warrantied it, but I bet I'll be changing it out again in less than a year.

Perhaps try buying just the solenoid from Rock Auto and see what happens?

Good luck, and Merry Christmas -- I'll bet you're having a white one!

Jeff

[dodged100]

so why does smackin it with a hammer get it going again? I always wondered that

[fins2fuselage]

so why does smackin it with a hammer get it going again? I always wondered that

Dodged,

Jolting a sticky solenoid with some sort of impact will sometimes cause whatever is siticking it to "free up". It can also cause a bad internal connection in the solenoid to sometimes make temporary contact.

The solenoid is indeed the usual problem (or at least the main problem) when this technique works. I have not found that smacking a starter with a bad drive, bad bushings or a bad armature to produce many results.

BTW, try to smack the solenoid itself so that you don't break the magnets inside the cylindrical starter housing and/or dent the housing to the point that interference is created with the armature. After all, it is the solenoid you will no doubt need to replace anyway, and it is relatively cheap and easy to change out.

Merry Christmas!

Jeff

[GHS]

Car starters aren't the only things that you can cure with a good whack.

When I was in the Air Force, we had a Canadian Air Force unit at our base, detached to a NORAD facility. Now and then, a Canadian officer would fly down in a CF-101 Voodoo, a great airplane, but getting long in the tooth at the time...the late 70's.

One day, a Voodoo was getting ready to leave, and the pilot couldn't get the plane started. He called our maintenance shop for an assist, but we had no tech data for that airplane and no one in the shop was familiar with it, so there wasn't much we could do to help.

The pilot said the problem happened quite often at his base, and that when it did, the crew chief would go under the airplane and whack the structure with a big, rubber mallet. Then the plane would start. He told our technician to start pounding until it sounded the same as when his crew chief did it. After a dozen or so whacks, he said it sounded right, and after the technician crawled out from under the plane, the pilot hit the starter button and the engine began to turn.

The RPM's spun normally, the engine lit off, and with a sharp salute, the pilot rolled onto the taxi way and headed home. Nothing like teamwork, even if sometimes it's blind luck.

We always said our squadron insignia should be a hammer and a condom, and the motto: "If you can't fix it...." well, you get the drift.

[jick]

hey meg
suffered similar trouble with rebuilt starter motors,eventually spent huge $ on pucker one ,to find it didn't last either,then someone told me the engine stops in one of four place's on the ring gear and thats where the trouble lies, next time ur starter is off check the teeth on the ring gear on the fly wheel ,if worn that is the cause of premature starter failure,possibly
regards

[buck99]

I've had my share of problems with the compact starters... It gets the "click, click" symptoms too. I've rebuilt them or bought new and seemed to last the same.

Since, though, I have been making my own starter contacts out of a peice of copper. I make the landing points twice as big and have had no problems since.

[mikehopkinsjr]

havent had a probelm out of the one that came with mine when i bought it, but jeez hope i dont have the ones yall are having, only thing i hate about mine is it weighs like 40 pounds :)

[Megunticook]

FYI, stopped by NAPA the other day to pick up some things, talked to one of the older countermen and he said "no problem," just bring in the starter and we'll give you store credit (apparently they don't carry a new one for my truck).

Probably just order a new one (the self-rebuilding options some of you mentioned sound promising, but I have so little free time these days), then take the NAPA one back...

Nothing worse than an unreliable starter--it's always in the back of your mind, "am I going to get stranded somewhere?"

[dodged100]

on my 76 my solenoid is on the inner fender well so i guess smacking the starter would do nothing for me. Right?

[volaredon]

on my 76 my solenoid is on the inner fender well so i guess smacking the starter would do nothing for me. Right?

probably wrong, depends on what's actually wrong with that starter. Weak bushings, sticky brushes, etc need the "shock" to break them loose; but DON'T do it on any car newer than, ~15 years (or so) as you will more likely do more harm than good; most of these smaller starters are "permanent magnet" meaning the hammer blow will more likely than not bust the magnets and then you ARE dead (actually your vehicle is)
though they call that thing on the firewall a starter RELAY, that and the thing on teh starter where the wire terminals connect do the same thing; they dampen the surge on the wiring, so as to NOT burn up wiring, starter switches, etc by going from NO load to ~200 amps like instantaneously; the initial surge in getting the starter motor going is higher than what it takes to keep it turning. That sudden surge will tear up things like ignition switches in no time.
The one on the starter though, also has the added job of sliding the "bendix" forward to engage the ring gear and releasing it once the engine starts, so the engine is not then driving the starter. We've all had cars with a starter that "sticks". and that problem often IS temporarily cured by a sharp blow.

[B-300]

It's the neutral start relay, not a starter relay like used in a Ford.