I can get it into 4wd but I'm assuming one shifter is 2wd<>4wd and the other shifter is Hi<>low? If some one could draw me a diagram of how the shifters work, I'd appreciate it. Its a 75 w100.
Speed Dragon
12-13-2008, 02:51 PM
???? Should only be one lever, if you have two the long one would be trans and the short one the t-case. Unless you have an aftermarket gear splitter, then you could have 2 shift levers for the 4wd. One would be the regular t-case, which is probably a 203 full-time, w/ Lo Loc/Lo/Hi/Hi Loc. The aftermarket would be just a high and low gear.
FTA Boy
12-13-2008, 04:50 PM
hmm, I'll go take pics, Maybe that will help
FTA Boy
12-13-2008, 05:57 PM
The Two Shifters
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll231/ftaboy/DSC05304.jpg
The bottom end of the Shifters
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll231/ftaboy/DSC05309.jpg
Where they connect to the Transmission
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll231/ftaboy/DSC05312.jpg
Can you get a better shot of the complete assy, like from further back? So we can see the trans and t-case better. What trans do you have?
B-300
12-13-2008, 10:32 PM
On a NP-203 transfercase one controls 2wd-4wd and the other is hi-low as a figured out... It appears someone modified the controls.
The NP-203 transfercase is an AWD set-up that shouid have a large nut at the center of each front wheel hub.
FTA Boy
12-13-2008, 11:33 PM
well, I'll take some pics tomorrow of everything. I'm not sure of the tranny thats in there now. I'll check according to the vin, Maybe get in there and check that plate too. The vin says its 318 but it has a 360 in there now, So who knows if the trans had been swapped or not. I bought this truck from a guy who had just bought it himself but his wife got pissed and he had to sell it FAST! which is why i got it for $600 + $200 for the winch. The guy I bought it from said the guy he bought it from was a mechanic and that he himself didn't really know too much about the truck.
B-300 I'm not to sure what you are saying. I'm dont' really know much about trucks, so could you re explain what your getting at please?
Speed Dragon
12-14-2008, 10:55 AM
The 203 has no 2wd, it is full-time awd. In Lo or Hi it's split 30/70 front and rear, in the Loc positions it's 50/50. Or at least that's what I've been told, either on here or on Ramcharger Central, forget which.
A full-time truck from the factory has a large castle nut in the middle of the wheel on the front, until I think the late 70's.
FTA Boy
12-14-2008, 01:03 PM
Well I can't check into it today. Its snowing outside and the truck doesn't fit in the garage...
B-300
12-15-2008, 12:50 PM
Speed is partially correct... On the 203 transfercase (AWD type)1 lever controls the Lo/High mode, the other is the Loc on/off... There is a differntial in the transfercase between the front and rear drive shafts that can be locked or unlocked only... (No 30/ 70 split.)
I have helped rebuild an NP 203 and it has no clutches to make a 30/70 power split unlike some latter ones that use clutches in the transfercase differental.
Add: By using 2 levers on a NP 203 box it would be possible to get a Locked, High range which is obviously 4wd.
Sorry about the incorrect info at post #6.
bherder
12-15-2008, 03:10 PM
Except that a 'full time' TC (203) is NOT AWD. 4WD's are not the same critter as AWD... Unless you're lucky enough to have a Sure-Grip rear axle and a locker front axle on your Dodge... From the assembly line, at worst you'll have 2WD (One wheel on each axle) with actual 'power' driving the wheel, and at best, with a Sure-Grip, a 3WD (Power going to both rear wheels and one front wheel) ....
Even a 'D' series truck ... "2WD", unless it came with a Sure-Grip rear axle, is really only a 1WD ....
I know that Sure-Grip rear ends were an 'option', and I've never heard of a PowerWagon/Ram coming with locker front axle. (Maybe one-ton stuff, but I'm really not that familiar with them, so I could very well be wrong about that... ;) )
Speed Dragon
12-15-2008, 03:27 PM
Well, an awd w/ no lockers/posi/limited slip/etc isn't really awd either then, according to your philosophy :) Awd simply means that power is supplied to both front and rear differentials, all the time. Has nothing to do w/ whether or not there's posi's front and rear or not.
bherder
12-15-2008, 04:29 PM
Well, an awd w/ no lockers/posi/limited slip/etc isn't really awd either then, according to your philosophy :)
Then, it's not "AWD"
Awd simply means that power is supplied to both front and rear differentials, all the time.
No no no.... AWD, means (And one can, on certain models, shift it in and out) there is power going to ALL four wheels. ALL at the same time. All with the same amount of power (25% I guess) going to each wheel.
My son's Bravada is AWD... There is power going to ALL four wheels (GM called/calls this 'Smart-Trak' ... At least back then) all the time. His is not 'shiftable' into AWD or 2WD....
My mother-in-law has a Subaru Forrester, which is shiftable into either 2WD (Power going to both rear wheels) or AWD, (Power going to all four wheels)
See, this is why 4x4 is NOT the same thing as AWD. It just isn't.
And to make matters worse, on some 4x4 rigs, on the front axle, depending on which way you have the wheels turned (Furd is famous for this) the power goes to the wheel that has the least amount of resistance. Does that sound ass-backwards or what? I'm guessing, it's just the 'mechanics' of it all.... It would seem to me, that you would want 'power' going to the wheel that has the MOST resistance (As in the one that's on the ground, and not hanging in the air) .....
Has nothing to do w/ whether or not there's posi's front and rear or not.
It does, when it's "old school" like what we have.... ;)
B-300
12-15-2008, 10:41 PM
Well then call it both axles driven when in locked position.... From a technical perspective.
Speed Dragon
12-16-2008, 07:10 AM
No no no.... AWD, means (And one can, on certain models, shift it in and out) there is power going to ALL four wheels. ALL at the same time. All with the same amount of power (25% I guess) going to each wheel.
My son's Bravada is AWD... There is power going to ALL four wheels (GM called/calls this 'Smart-Trak' ... At least back then) all the time. His is not 'shiftable' into AWD or 2WD....
My mother-in-law has a Subaru Forrester, which is shiftable into either 2WD (Power going to both rear wheels) or AWD, (Power going to all four wheels)
See, this is why 4x4 is NOT the same thing as AWD. It just isn't.
And to make matters worse, on some 4x4 rigs, on the front axle, depending on which way you have the wheels turned (Furd is famous for this) the power goes to the wheel that has the least amount of resistance. Does that sound ass-backwards or what? I'm guessing, it's just the 'mechanics' of it all.... It would seem to me, that you would want 'power' going to the wheel that has the MOST resistance (As in the one that's on the ground, and not hanging in the air) .....
You sit that Bravada where one front and one back wheel is one ice and it will spin too I bet, unless it has a viscous limited slip like the Subaru and other imports has. There is also usually one in the t-case also on awd. The t-case itself has no way at all to lock the differentials, it is totally separate.
But anyhow, we'll get back to the topic :) Maybe we should start a thread to discuss this.
B-300
12-16-2008, 03:40 PM
In my book 4wd is a marketing name to imply up to 4 wheels can be driven if they have traction, the same for 2wd. (With locking or limited slip differentials they are closer to the implied description.)
1 axle=2wheels, therefore 2 axles=4wheels
The Jeep Grand Cherekee SRT-8 is supposedly AWD... It has a viscous differental in the transfercase and isn't an import such as the Eagle Talon (Plymouth Laser) do also in the AWD version, these do have a torque bias to enhance handling characteristics.
mlauk
12-17-2008, 01:24 PM
I call it a 4WD if it has a 2 speed transfer case and AWD for anything else.
B-300
12-17-2008, 03:14 PM
Then there is the debate of part-time vs. full-time 4wd.
I would classify part-time as the type with locking hubs that have to be manually engaged and full-time as those that can be put into 4wd mode without getting out of the truck such as auto-lock hubs and always connected hubs such as those used with the NP203 transfer case.... You need not get into the fowl weather to lock them as they are always locked.
75 Power Wagon
12-17-2008, 04:15 PM
Then there is the debate of part-time vs. full-time 4wd.
I would classify part-time as the type with locking hubs that have to be manually engaged and full-time as those that can be put into 4wd mode without getting out of the truck such as auto-lock hubs and always connected hubs such as those used with the NP203 transfer case.... You need not get into the fowl weather to lock them as they are always locked.
but auto-lock hubs would not be considered full-time 4wd. But part-time 4wd with auto lock hubs! lol.
full-time 4wd means you can not have anything but 4wd. (which is what a standard np203 transfer case with standard axles are)
B-300
12-17-2008, 06:43 PM
There is a differential between the front and rear drive shafts of the NP203 transfercase. If your not in "Loc" mode you can loose traction at one end of the truck.... You must be in Loc mode to transfer power to both axles.... It locks the differential so power is transfered to both driveshafts equally. (I have rebuilt one, so I know whats inside.)
bookworm
12-20-2008, 07:48 AM
Pardon me whilst I go bang my head hard and repeatedly against the garage wall.....
FTA Boy
12-31-2008, 01:02 AM
So what I got out of his thread is.... NP 203 is constantly in 4wd, Get Lockers, and My transmission is modified. So If I'm getting all of this It can go
30/70 Hi<>Lo
50/50 Hi<>Lo
is that right?
volaredon
12-31-2008, 07:45 PM
I had a 203 in my 79 Ramcharger; only 1 lever; shifter positions were HI LOC
HI
N
LO
LO LOC
there was no 2nd lever; you might be thinking of a Jeep or a Scout which did offer a Twin Stick transfer case; I believe made by Dana not New Process; one lever is Hi-LO, the other is 2WD-4WD; my brothers have them in older Jeeps and they can switch into LO and still be in 2WD.
B-300
12-31-2008, 10:58 PM
Scouts used a Dana 20 which is a twin stick.
The NP 203 is locked or open, no 50/50 or 30/70... It's 100% locked or unlocked (0%).
Later cases have viscous couplers or limited-slip (cone type) differentials in the transfer case.
Some cases lock the front and rear drive shafts in 4wd and put the front drive shaft in neutral in 2wd.
It's this reason that makes me say 4wd is a marketing name as there are many variations.... partime, fulltime with locking differential or active differential.
add.
FTA,
What I see is that you have an NP203 transfercase which is fulltime and the shifter for it has been modified from a single stick that didn't allow for Hi Loc to occur. By seperating it to 2 sticks, one will Loc or unLoc the differenial between the front and rear driveshafts. The other shifts the reduction box from Hi to neutral to Low.
Being setup this way allows you the drive in Locked, Hi mode which the single shifter doesn't allow because factory didn't think you shouldn't drive at high speed when 4wd is needed for traction.
FTA Boy
01-01-2009, 01:18 AM
Aaww I see you edited your post. Ok Well I fully understand now. EXCEPT I don't understand what's Locking and unlocking? I mean I see you said its Loc or unLoc for the differential between the front and rear drive shafts, But I'm not sure what that means.
I copied a pic out of the Haynes manual and edited it for people to better understand my situation.
This is the original shifter where one shifter moves two shift rods and shift levers at once.
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll231/ftaboy/np203shifter.jpg
This is a mock up of how my shifter is set up, where each shifter controls a shift rod and shift lever
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll231/ftaboy/np203shiftermodified.jpg
B-300
01-01-2009, 01:56 AM
In the transfercase between the front and rear driveshaft yokes the is a differential similiar to what is used in front and rear axles. This one can be locked so that both driveshafts turn at the same speed... If this is unlocked one axle can spin and the other won't just like when you do a burn-out in a car that doesn't have a limitet slip differential and only one tire (right side usually) smokes.
As long as the wheels are turning and I'm not stuck I'm happy...:D:D
mikehopkinsjr
01-05-2009, 06:09 PM
Bout them locking hubs, Is there a conversion to switch unlocking hubs to optional. Like I have a 78 w-150 with a part-time kit and dont have unlocking hubs. So if there is a conversion for that I'd love to know, it'd help the gas mpg a good bit without all the friction of the front axle i bet. Thanks
