Hi-
I just bought an 86 D150. It has 56K original miles and I paid $650 for it. It is mechanically solid but depressingly slow. I'd like some feedback on swapping in an edelbrock intake manifold and 600CFM 4bbl carb. Flowtech also makes a nice set of headers that I'm looking at also.
fins2fuselage
10-08-2008, 01:52 PM
Beatersdigest,
Welcome to DodgeTalk!
Does that 318 have a Carter 2-bbbl or a Rochester 4-bbl? You could probably "wake it up" by installing the factory 4-bbl setup from a donor truck.
For what it is worth, my '72 with a 318, 727 and a Carter 2-bbl is anything but depressingly slow -- and its only mod is a glasspack muffler on the single exhaust!
Jeff
beatersdigest
10-08-2008, 02:09 PM
The factory carb is the carter 2bbl. It also is loaded with emission controls. I live in Las Vegas so I have to pass smog each year.
fins2fuselage
10-08-2008, 02:18 PM
The factory carb is the carter 2bbl. It also is loaded with emission controls. I live in Las Vegas so I have to pass smog each year.
BD,
Which is another reason I would recommend going with the factory 4-bbl setup -- it will be compatible with most/all of the emissions gear. Try to buy the throttle cable/cruise brackets, air cleaner and whatever "incidentals" you may need to install it along with the intake and carb from a donor truck. It makes the conversion go much more smoothly.
Back when those trucks were new, my employer at the time had an '85 and then an '87 with the 4-bbl setup, and they definetely weren't slow even with all of their smog equipment in place.
Jeff
beatersdigest
10-08-2008, 02:50 PM
Sounds good. There are salvage yards galore here. I wonder if the 360 manifold and 4bbl carb would bolt right in? I looked up the original HP rating- only 140 in 1986. I'll bet the 72 is rated quite a bit higher.
bookworm
10-08-2008, 03:06 PM
Yes, the 360 intake will bolt up.
tell ya what, if it was me doing this, I would get an aftermarket TBI swap. Better power, better milage, should be no probs w/smog compliance.
If you got the money that is....that throttle body injection beats the carb hands down.
beatersdigest
10-08-2008, 03:12 PM
I would love to go efi. Holley makes a setup that is expensive. I wonder if a salvage yard setup from a factory vehicle would work? I would likely need all the electronics, computer, and sensors.
bookworm
10-08-2008, 03:58 PM
Factory TBI can be made to work, I have done it, years ago. It is a very extensive swap, underhood and underdash wiring needs to be changed, fuel tank ( to get the in-tank pump) needs to be swapped.
This is not a swap to be undertaken lightly. It would be far easier to put aftermarket on it.
To do that factory TBI swap, you really need an entire donor truck.
beatersdigest
10-08-2008, 04:21 PM
Thanks. I'll keep that in mind. I lean a little toward the carb because of the simplicity and cost.
fins2fuselage
10-08-2008, 08:04 PM
Thanks. I'll keep that in mind. I lean a little toward the carb because of the simplicity and cost.
Go with your gut, BD.
I won't own a vehicle with fuel injection; check list in sig.
And I won't own a vehicle with any Holley components whatsoever.
Jeff
beatersdigest
10-09-2008, 08:45 AM
Why not Holley?
fins2fuselage
10-09-2008, 09:40 PM
Why not Holley?
BD,
Because Holley carbs are so poorly-made that they are virtually unrebuildable. This is particularly true of the aftermarket versions (as opposed to OE) which have recently been made largely of plastic and wafer-thin pot metal. Very rarely do they perform as expected. Racers love certain versions of them because they are "tuneable", but their street drivability is almost nil. I can't speak to the FI units, but I wouldn't trust 'em either. We all have our peeves, but if you ask nost other carburetor men they will tell you much the same.
Keep it simple: keep it carbureted -- with a Rochester or, if you choose the aftermarket, an Edelbrock. BTW: Edelbrock does make a Quadrajet clone which will work on Mopars, but they are very costly.
Jeff
beatersdigest
10-09-2008, 09:42 PM
Good to know. My factory carb is a holley. I'm not impressed. When I go 4-barrel I am looking at an edelbrock 600CFM unit.
fins2fuselage
10-09-2008, 09:47 PM
Good to know. My factory carb is a holley. I'm not impressed. When I go 4-barrel I am looking at an edelbrock 600CFM unit.
If the choice is Edelbrock, that would be the way to go with a 318. Be sure to buy the Mopar throttle lever adapter and the throttle cable bracket which Edelbrock offer. They will make the installation go a lot easier. You see, the Edelbrock Performer Square-Bore and the AVS Thunder Series come with a Chevy throttle lever and you must "reconcile" that with your Mopar throttle cable.
Jeff
beatersdigest
10-09-2008, 09:51 PM
Sounds good. I am new with carbs. My last carbureted vehicle was a 77 ford t-bird I drove in high school. The 4 barrel swap is what I'd like to do next- along with the edelbrock performer manifold. I just want to make sure the motor is worth it first. Today I heard a valve clatter while I was coming home from some errands. I'm a little nervous. I haven't pulled valve covers yet but I will soon.
fins2fuselage
10-09-2008, 10:05 PM
Sounds good. I am new with carbs. My last carbureted vehicle was a 77 ford t-bird I drove in high school. The 4 barrel swap is what I'd like to do next- along with the edelbrock performer manifold. I just want to make sure the motor is worth it first. Today I heard a valve clatter while I was coming home from some errands. I'm a little nervous. I haven't pulled valve covers yet but I will soon.
BD,
Begin by checking the timing chain for slack, the EGR valve for correct operation and of course the ignition timing for an advanced condition first. These can all mimic a noise similar to "valve clatter". Of course, so will worn-out cam bearings . . .
If the valves truly are clattering and the problem is none of the above, it is probably the hydraulic lifters. If so, use only Mopar Performance lifters! The lifters which Melling et al sell are "will-fits" which are also designed to fit AMCs and who-knows-what-else. In my ignorance, I installed a set of them in a 360 and it clattered worse than before! When I switched 'em to MP lifters, it ran nice and quiet.
Jeff
beatersdigest
10-09-2008, 10:41 PM
Wow. Thanks for the direction. I will keep those things in mind. Tomorrow my buddy and I will have a close look.
beatersdigest
10-10-2008, 08:40 AM
Jeff-
Interestingly enough, on the way to work a few minutes ago the noise was gone. Maybe it was due to the air or motor temperature. One thing I thought of with that noise was the EGR valve. I seafoamed the engine a couple days ago. I wonder if a loose piece of carbon fouled up the EGR valve.
fins2fuselage
10-11-2008, 10:33 AM
Jeff-
Interestingly enough, on the way to work a few minutes ago the noise was gone. Maybe it was due to the air or motor temperature. One thing I thought of with that noise was the EGR valve. I seafoamed the engine a couple days ago. I wonder if a loose piece of carbon fouled up the EGR valve.
BD,
Anything is possible. A clogged passage blocking one or more of the oil galleries leading to the lifters might also have become unclogged.
Do a compression (or leakdown) test on your engine. If you get consistent high readings and the engine doesn't smoke, it is probably OK. I would change the timing chain-and-gear set and the oil pump (which is inside the oil sump) ASAP just to foil the Evil Demon of Catostrophic Failure and then proceed to make your induction upgrades, being certain not to deviate too far from the beaten path and not to demand too much of the 318.
A Mopar Performance cam change may be in order if you really want to wake it up, but choose a mild one which is not so radical that you drastically affect your idle quality and other aspects of drivability such as fuel economy.
Jeff
beatersdigest
10-11-2008, 10:52 AM
Jeff-
I was pretty relieved when the noise was gone. I have ordered a timing chain set from Summit and have considered a cam change too. Is Mopar the best option or is Edelbrock worth it also? I have looked at several different ones. I am looking for one that will increase my bottom-end power and torque. I won't be taking this truck to the strip. Here is one I saw from Summit:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=DCC-4452782&autoview=sku
fins2fuselage
10-11-2008, 09:44 PM
Jeff-
I was pretty relieved when the noise was gone. I have ordered a timing chain set from Summit and have considered a cam change too. Is Mopar the best option or is Edelbrock worth it also? I have looked at several different ones. I am looking for one that will increase my bottom-end power and torque. I won't be taking this truck to the strip. Here is one I saw from Summit:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=DCC-4452782&autoview=sku
BD,
It does not sound as though it is too radical, but I am no engineer. Is it a "purple shaft" cam? If so, I have heard small-block owners complain that it provides too little vacuum for power brakes and idle.
I would be certain to compare its specs to those of the cam grinds they used in stock 273 Commandos and 340s. As long as you don't exceed those stock specs by much, you should be alright. But then, I always err or the side of caution.
Speaking of caution, you need to be aware of this before installing your new cam, no matter the builder: the absence of ZDDP in modern engine oil is wreaking premature-wear havoc with newly-installed cams. ZDDP is a critical lubricating component in oils used in flat-tappet engines, and its presence is doubly important to engines which have new parts installed such as cams. It contains zinc and phosphate; don't ask me what the "DD" part stands for.
As I understand it, ZDDP has been removed from oils by Federal mandate because it is supposed to be some sort of pollutant and because all(?) new vehicles now use roller rockers. This is obviously bad news for owners of older vehicles. The good news is that there is a company which now produces a product called "ZDDP Plus" which is designed to be poured into the crankcase to solve the problem.
Please check into ZDDP Plus and confirm what I have told you with an internet search, then "pick your bumpstick" and have yourself some fun with that 318!
Jeff
beatersdigest
10-12-2008, 12:40 AM
Jeff-
Thanks for the heads up. I am somewhat familiar with lube needs of new cams. I notice that several cam manufacturers recommend and in some cases require a special oil additive to be added to the motor oil upon break in. I found the ZDDP plus additive. http://www.zddplus.com/. It looks like the right stuff. I'll have to switch to petroleum oil during cam beak-in. I use Amsoil right now. Redline also makes an additive for the cam break-in phase. http://www.redlineoil.com/products_motoroil.asp
As far as the mopar cam I looked at earlier, the specs look fine. I'm not looking for a top end monster with too lopey of an idle. I've narrowed it son to this one or the edelbrock performer cam kit. Both share nearly the same specs and would exploit the bottom-end power potential of my motor.
1972-D100
10-14-2008, 02:09 PM
I only use Mopar parts on the insides! Wouldn't trust anything else.. Go with a MILD RV cam, it will help give you the torque you are looking for without killing your MPG.
As for the Carb... I have a Holey on my truck now a 750 double pumper, not real happy with it. But I have also had the 600CFM Eldebrock Performer carb on it before, same results, not happy with it either. I'm planning on going to get me a stock 4bl intake that I can put a factory 4bl on it.
:secret2:Oh and just to let you know Carter makes the Eldebrock Carbs.
fins2fuselage
10-14-2008, 03:06 PM
:secret2:Oh and just to let you know Carter makes the Eldebrock Carbs.
Well, sort of.
You see, a company called Magnetti Marelli(sp?) bought up the remnants of Carter and produces carbs with both the Edelbrock and Carter names -- if, in fact, they are still selling anything at all branded as "Carter" (I haven't seen one lately). If MM is not yet wholly owned by Edelbrock, they might as well be. The last I heard, they were building carbs (or at least their components) right here in North Carolina.
Jeff
1972-D100
10-14-2008, 03:31 PM
Well, sort of.
You see, a company called Magnetti Marelli(sp?) bought up the remnants of Carter and produces carbs with both the Edelbrock and Carter names -- if, in fact, they are still selling anything at all branded as "Carter" (I haven't seen one lately). If MM is not yet wholly owned by Edelbrock, they might as well be. The last I heard, they were building carbs (or at least their components) right here in North Carolina.
Jeff
Hey Jeff,
Didn't know that, when I bought my Edelbrock in AZ, the guy there said that Carter was now making all the carbs for Edelbrock, I guess I may be remembering it backwards, it was some time ago... I know I have a Carter 600 and Edelbrock 600 that are the exact same carbs, the tag that is held on by the 2 screws at the top is the only difference. I went to the Holey after those two, now I think I'm going to back to the stock 4bl set up, I think I can get a remanned Carter pretty easily.
fins2fuselage
10-14-2008, 09:38 PM
Hey Jeff,
Didn't know that, when I bought my Edelbrock in AZ, the guy there said that Carter was now making all the carbs for Edelbrock, I guess I may be remembering it backwards, it was some time ago... I know I have a Carter 600 and Edelbrock 600 that are the exact same carbs, the tag that is held on by the 2 screws at the top is the only difference. I went to the Holey after those two, now I think I'm going to back to the stock 4bl set up, I think I can get a remanned Carter pretty easily.
Come back from the dark side, Luke! The Holley can be recycled -- as a door stop.
But do yourself a favor and buy a new Edelbrock or Carter if they still sell 'em. Carters are (were?) cheaper. Check with Summit or Jegs.
Jeff
1972-D100
10-15-2008, 09:47 AM
Come back from the dark side, Luke! The Holley can be recycled -- as a door stop.
I was thinking more along the lines of a new achor for my boat!
But do yourself a favor and buy a new Edelbrock or Carter if they still sell 'em. Carters are (were?) cheaper. Check with Summit or Jegs.
Jeff
I'm going to use a factory stock Carter 4bl if I can find a remanned one.
