I have a 2001 Grand Caravan Sport with about 68K miles on it. The check engine light was on for some time although mechanics could never find the issue. The van started having problems when trying to start it in that sometimes it would start sometimes it would not. At one point it would not longer start and we had it towed to the mechanic who determined that battery was dead and we replaced it. This was about 2 months ago.
After resetting the computer, the engine light came back on immediately. It continued to start hard until one day it stalled while driving down the road. It did restart after it died. I took it to certified Dodge dealer who replaced the Power Train Control Module and also flushed the power steering fluid. The van started and the check engine light was off.
My wife put gas in the car the day after we picked it up (last week) and ran some errands. The next morning, the car started hard again although it did turn over. I drove to the store where I had problems getting the car restarted. When it finally turned over, I was driving and the car sputtered. The check engine light came back on.
I took it back to the dealer again explaining that it does not start and the engine light was on. This time, they determined that the O2 sensor was bad and replaced that. I picked the car up on Tuesday. Wednesday, the car is now not starting at all. When I called the dealer they explained that they could not get it started after replacing the sensor, they cleaned a ground wire and it started so they figured it was fixed. Upon further conversation, they told me that unless I can get the car to NOT start regularly they could not diagnose the problem.
I am extremely frustrated and a couple thousand dollars poorer... does anyone have any ideas or thoughts on what could be causing the issue? I have seen similar posts... any help would be appreciated!
StandOnCliff
09-11-2008, 01:58 PM
Intermittent problems are the hardest to figure out and most of the time diagnosing it while it works does come up with no problem. I would start at looking at all connections. Battery connections, grounds and such. Not just looking either, actually pull the connection apart and clean them with sandpaper. Pulling and taking the starter into autozone you can have the starter tested to rule out starter failure. When it won't start try bringing it out of park as your trying to roll it over. If it begins to roll you may have a neautral safety switch going bad. Try tapping kind of hard on the dash,not hard enough to break anything though. If it starts your problem may be in the instrument cluster. These vehicles are notorious for ground problems, check them all, even the one connected to your radio. It runs alot more then the radio. The o2 sensor being bad wouldn't cause this problem, it would set the light off though. It stalling as going down the road tends to make me believe it may be a ground issue or a crank sensor going bad. The crank sensor or cam sensor could be the hard to start condition, but has nothing to do with it actually rolling. You should also have a starter relay in the power distribution center, try changing it around with a known good one. High beam or low beam ones are the safest to try. If it now starts all the time and your headlights now give you trouble you have a relay going bad.
Rick99
09-11-2008, 02:07 PM
If the check engine light is on now, turn the key on-off-on-off-on without starting the engine and read the codes that appear in the odometer-- be ready with pencil and paper to write them down. Post them here and it may help us out.
BTW-- I've never heard of the instrument cluster problem causing a no start on an 01 or newer van, though it was a big problem with the prior generation.
soraci
09-26-2008, 09:49 AM
Hi - here is the latest. Since the original post, I had the car towed to the dealer where they kept it for 5 days. Right after it was towed in, it would not start. The next morning it started and they could not get it "no start". The van passed inspection and I went and picked it up.
It ran great for about 5 days, no issues. Started fine, sounded great and ran better than it had in a while. This morning, tried to start it and the same thing happened. It will not turn over.
The dealer thinks it could be in the wire harness however, they have no idea which one and the best he can offer it start cracking them all open looking for bad wires. They said this could get fairly expensive since they will have to replace any corroded wires they run across if they break with no guarantee of fixing the actual problem....
Any other ideas what could be causing this? I find it hard to believe that I have the only Caravan in the country having this issue... I can't afford to keep throwing money into the car with no results. I have already towed it 3 times and have put a few thousand in it in parts and labor. The car is not worth much more than that!
Help!
Rick99
09-26-2008, 11:11 AM
I thought we were talking about a crank-no-start (engine turns over, but doesn't start). From your latest post, it sounds like you are talking about a no-crank no-start. That's an important difference-- if it is no-crank no-start, then the problem is most likely with the starting system (the system that cranks the engine) and not with any of the engine management stuff (sensors, etc.)
That narrows it down a lot, but you'd still have to work through the starting system. A couple things you can try without too much expertise-- I think there is a starter relay (I don't have my service manual with me right now), you can replace that. The other thing to try is next time when it won't crank, try wiggling the gear shifter and/or shifting to neutral to see if it will start with the shifter in that position. There is a safety switch in the shifter that will not allow the engine to crank if the shifter is not in either park or neutral. It's not unusual for that switch to fail or go out of adjustment-- that could cause the kind of intermittant failure you're talking about.
BTW-- I don't know if you're even remotely mechanically-inclined, but just think what kind of tool set you'd have if you spent that money on tools instead of towing and labor. Something to consider if you are so inclined. I started with a $150 Craftsman "set", some jack stands and a couple other tools and taught myself to do all my repairs with factory service manuals and help from boards like this.
mfahey
09-26-2008, 01:43 PM
We had a somewhat similar situation with our 2001. It wouldn't turn over and a number of items such as the radio, climate control and so forth didn't work.
As odd as it sounds, this was two years ago and shooting LockEase into the key slot worked. My son was also having similar issues with his Civic and the LockEase took care of his problem as well. For only costing several dollars, it is work a shot.
The fact that the check engine light was on and the dealer couldn't use that as a starting point for troubleshooting doesn't reflect well on the dealer unless these are two separate issues.
Rick99
09-26-2008, 02:23 PM
We had a somewhat similar situation with our 2001. It wouldn't turn over and a number of items such as the radio, climate control and so forth didn't work.
As odd as it sounds, this was two years ago and shooting LockEase into the key slot worked. My son was also having similar issues with his Civic and the LockEase took care of his problem as well. For only costing several dollars, it is work a shot.
The fact that the check engine light was on and the dealer couldn't use that as a starting point for troubleshooting doesn't reflect well on the dealer unless these are two separate issues.
It's unlikely that the CEL was related to a no-crank no-start since the CEL only lights when there is something wrong with drivetrain management stuff that can effect emissions.
That's interesting about the Lockease-- maybe it somehow cleaned up the contacts in the ignition switch (which would also be a potential culprit here).
Another question-- when you get the no-crank, does everything still power up when you turn the key to the "on" position (even though it won't crank when you turn to the "start" position)?
soraci
09-26-2008, 03:23 PM
When I turn the key everything else does work. The ideas here give me something to try, I am certainly tired of seeing the dealer and the tow truck! I will let you know if any of it works!
StandOnCliff
09-27-2008, 12:15 PM
I've already told him to do those checks in my first post. I'm pretty sure his problem is that it will roll forever
to start sometimes and sometimes it will not roll at all. Other times it starts up like it has no problem. Then at
times it just shuts off going down the road. The check engine light coming on every once in awhile for the O2
sensor would not be his problem. The starting circuit would be the first problem to diagnose. It shutting down or
being hard to start as it's rolling may or may not be related. Once it is fixed to roll everytime with the key then it would become a seperate issue.
When it will not roll is the time to test the starting circuit. Per above checks as others and I've posted. The simple easy route to check everything is when it isn't rolling. Crawl underneath and locate the smaller wire that
plugs onto a terminal on the starter. Using a voltmeter or test light. Have someone try to roll it over. If it gets
12 volts or lights the test light then the problem is probably the starter. If it doesn't your problem lies in
either wiring, ignition switch, neutral safety switch relay or other components.
Wiring harness problems can usually be found any where wire wear or corrosion occurs. Places wires come out of the
actual harness to make their connections or bare rub areas are the most common. Usually the harness in between
those areas doesn't go bad as long as the sheathing isn't broken or it doesn't have obvious water damage. As an
example, I've seen harnesses that run on the floor by the door go bad from the windows leaking and the harness
being immursed in water in the rug. As another example. I've seen them go bad from areas that weren't properly
routed through rubber plugs and such and they actually rub bare metal.
I'm not sure if the newer caravans have changed this or not. There are two grey plugs,one might be black,under your
battery. They are the main connections for every sensor and the starter to the engine from the body. Being they are
under your battery they like to corrode. Might be worth looking at.
