i have a 2001 dodge caravan 3.3l. when i start the car if sometimes does not start. if i try to turn the key again it has a hard time starting. if i turn the ignition off then start again it starts right away. the main problem is when i put the car in drive. if i give moderate throttle the car will start to rev, stumble, rev, stumble etc. this may be quick or for up to 30 sec. other then that it usually runs fine. sometimes i do not know if it is me or not but it seems sluggish at highway speeds at times also. but only feelings no stumbling like at the initial start. it does not seem to show these problems in neutural. there are also no codes being displayed. no check engine lights also. i tried the key thing it just says done immediatly and advanced gets no codes on thier readers.
the plugs look ok also.
it is progressing also.
i ran a bottle of inj cleaner through but that does not seem to working.
thanks
Rick99
09-04-2008, 02:34 PM
You should check fuel pressure/volume. It sounds a lot like a fuel delivery problem-- most likely a weak pump, but could be a clogged filter or other problem-- I recently had similar symptoms with my Sebring and I found a leaking fuel line that was releasing enough pressure to cause trouble.
mumbles027
09-07-2008, 03:24 PM
i changed the fuel filter. that made no difference. but i was wondering about the coved over the intake manifold. i was looking around the engine bay and noticed that one of the clips holding the plastic cover was broken. is that cover the reason for my problems or just cosmetic? the only reason i ask is the foam that i see under it. i will be taking a closer look after the engine cools down. just thought i should get more info while i did that.
scotto
09-07-2008, 04:38 PM
You could post a picture to show what you mean, but I doubt that is the problem.
Go back to Rick's post, "You should check fuel pressure/volume"
Then move forward from there.
mumbles027
09-07-2008, 06:16 PM
ok
i did the fuel filter. and an oil change today.
untill i can find the pressure guage for the fuel i will have to wait on that.
when i had the car runing if i put the car to about 2-2.5 k is when it sparratically revs. not too much before or after. but if you hold it there it falls down.
when i get a chance i am going to look at the tps.
btw why are sensors so hard to get a hold of at my local shop? the last couple sensors that i read the part #s for came back with nothing.
thank and just thinking out loud. since thinking to my self is pointless.
Rick99
09-08-2008, 12:15 PM
There's not much to look at with the TPS unless you have a scope and can check for spikes, though I suppose a check with a multimeter wouldn't hurt anything. I have the 3.8l and there was a TSB out for a revised TPS.
I could be wrong, but your symptoms just sound like fuel starvation to me, which is why I suggested looking at fuel delivery-- pumps are expensive as are other parts-- you really should buy or get access to a pressure gauge.
I had a bad "stumble" on my 01 which turned out to be a weak ignition coil, which is also a possibility in your case, though my symptoms were different (I had an occasional misfire, with intermittant trouble getting off the line at stop lights-- otherwise it ran fine.) The worste part was that the coil was in spec with a resistance test and it was the misfire monitor on my scan tool that lead me to the coil after chasing some other dead ends. I used a scope to check out the cam and crank sensors and replaced the TPS because of the service bulletin, though it didn't help anything.
I buy all my parts from my local Chrysler dealer parts desk, which after after a polite request, is willing to give me their shop discount. With my three Chrysler vehicles and desire to keep them in tip-top shape, I do a pretty good business with them now.
mumbles027
09-09-2008, 08:09 AM
i got two codes today. the one i know the other i am not sure what it means.
P1684 Driver 5 Line 4
P0106 Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) System Performance
what is driver 5 line 4?
and what part of the map system?
Rick99
09-09-2008, 09:24 AM
Look at the code definitions in the sticky at the top of this forum. p1684 just means that the battery was disconnected, although it seems to get set with every other code I have ever seen regardless of whether the battery was disconnected or not.
P0106 is a sensor "rationality" check. When you turn the key "on" and before you start the engine, the computer uses the MAP sensor to determine the atmospheric barometric (air)pressure. For the rest of the engine run time, this pressure is used in the fuel calculations-- that way the engine runs well if it's a stormy day (usually low pressure) or a bright sunny day (usually high pressure). However, if the barometric pressure reads so low that you're either in the center of a tornado or something is wrong with the sensor, then the computer sets P0106.
This would explain your problems since all of the fuel calculations would be way off if the computer is basing them on a bad barometric pressure reading.
So it looks like there's likely a problem with your MAP sensor-- it could be a problem with the reference voltage delivered to the sensor by the PCM, so it wouldn't hurt to check the reference voltage wire at the MAP with a volt meter to see if it reads about 5v before replacing the sensor.
BTW-- I've heard of people cleaning the MAP sensor rather than replacing it-- might be worth a try. The sensor costs about $90 from the dealer.
mumbles027
09-09-2008, 07:25 PM
Look at the code definitions in the sticky at the top of this forum. p1684 just means that the battery was disconnected, although it seems to get set with every other code I have ever seen regardless of whether the battery was disconnected or not.
P0106 is a sensor "rationality" check. When you turn the key "on" and before you start the engine, the computer uses the MAP sensor to determine the atmospheric barometric (air)pressure. For the rest of the engine run time, this pressure is used in the fuel calculations-- that way the engine runs well if it's a stormy day (usually low pressure) or a bright sunny day (usually high pressure). However, if the barometric pressure reads so low that you're either in the center of a tornado or something is wrong with the sensor, then the computer sets P0106.
This would explain your problems since all of the fuel calculations would be way off if the computer is basing them on a bad barometric pressure reading.
So it looks like there's likely a problem with your MAP sensor-- it could be a problem with the reference voltage delivered to the sensor by the PCM, so it wouldn't hurt to check the reference voltage wire at the MAP with a volt meter to see if it reads about 5v before replacing the sensor.
BTW-- I've heard of people cleaning the MAP sensor rather than replacing it-- might be worth a try. The sensor costs about $90 from the dealer.
it seems to be the map sensor. i replaced it and it works fine. i will be driving a lot of miles the next few days. so i will know if it stops working soon.
btw i got the sensor at the parts store for $50.
Rick99
09-10-2008, 02:14 PM
Great! Glad to hear it worked out for you with a pretty simple fix.
Yes-- aftermarket parts are a lot cheaper, but I've had too many that don't work right, don't fit right or don't hold up, so I prefer OEM stuff with a few exceptions.
mumbles027
09-18-2008, 12:50 PM
what is a p 0172 code?
jmcxcsp
09-22-2008, 11:49 AM
172 The oxygen sensor is saying that the system air/fuel mix is far too rich (too much air is being added as a correction).
mumbles027
09-23-2008, 04:42 PM
does that mean i have a bad o2 sensor?
Rick99
09-23-2008, 05:53 PM
Possibly, but it could also mean that the fuel mix is too rich as could happen if you have a stuck injector.
mumbles027
09-28-2008, 02:42 PM
Possibly, but it could also mean that the fuel mix is too rich as could happen if you have a stuck injector.
How can i check to see if the injector is stuck? or how many i have stuck?
could be as easy as pulling the injectors out of the block still attached to the rail and turn the key forward to have the fuel pump put pressure on the injectors?
Rick99
09-29-2008, 11:24 AM
How can i check to see if the injector is stuck? or how many i have stuck?
could be as easy as pulling the injectors out of the block still attached to the rail and turn the key forward to have the fuel pump put pressure on the injectors?
I wouldn't advise doing something that could spray fuel all over the place. Do you have a misfire (running rough)? Are any of the plugs wet? These could point you to the right cylinder.
You can sometimes hear a bad injector by listening to them with either a mechanic's stethescope or a long screwdriver with one end to the injector, the other end to your ear with the engine running-- I'm not sure you can access them this way on your engine. You listen for clear and consistent clicking of the injectors (while keeping your limbs, hair and clothing clear of moving engine parts, of course).
Before pulling the injectors you could try a cleaner-- preferably the kind you hook up to the fuel line.
If you don't have a professional do this, then before you go breaking into the fuel lines though, make sure you read the manual about relieving the pressure and other precautions you need to take. (Sorry, I don't know how much experience you have, but even after following the pressure-relief procedure, the fuel system can still have some pressure and leak a significant amount of fuel.)
mumbles027
09-29-2008, 12:42 PM
it is kind of hard to get to the back set of inj. when i pull them out how do i tell what one is bad?
i changed the plugs. downstream o2, tps, map, and the upstream o2 a couple years back.
when i drive the car for a little while the car has a very eratic idle. it is like i am trying to entice the driver next to me to a drag race.
otherwise i have been starting to smell a little more fuel and the exaust seems a little hotter then usual.
i took the car for a little drive after i replaced the o2 and tps yesterday. the codes did not come back but the car is still running badly. it seems to come and go sometimes. when i drove the car home on sat the dash light went off and it ran fine for a while.
Rick99
09-29-2008, 02:26 PM
Yeah, you probably have to remove the intake to get to the rear injectors, although you may be able to do it if you pull the wiper module. (the plastic tub that has the wiper motor and drive in it)-- you just have to look to see what you're dealing with-- I've never had to do this on our van.
Pull the plugs and look for one that is wet-- that may help you find the misfire. It's a little strange you don't have a misfire code, but maybe it hasn't met the criteria yet for some reason. If you can get access to a scan tool that can do the OBDII mis-fire monitor test, it would also show which cylinder is misfiring-- though that's above the typical scanner places like Autozone have.
If you're dumping lots of fuel into the catalytic converter it could burn it up, so it would be good to resolve this before that happens.
Remember it can take some time for a code to set depending on the criteria required for it, so the fact the light is off for now doesn't mean the problem it gone.
mumbles027
10-01-2008, 06:33 PM
i pulled the plugs today and they all seemed fine.
there is no was to get to the back set of injectors without taking off the intake manifold.
i am taking for granted that bank one is the rear set.
mumbles027
10-12-2008, 02:32 PM
i pulled the plugs today and they all seemed fine.
there is no was to get to the back set of injectors without taking off the intake manifold.
i am taking for granted that bank one is the rear set.
i got a long screwdriver. all the injectors all seem to sound the same. i got a code that the map did not change reading from start to run. so i replaced the map. it made no change. the car seems to go better at higher rpm when it has some gas. but idle is where it is really rough.
could the dist box that feeds the spark plugs be running weak? i would think that a restriced air flow could be a problem. but it runs the same with the airbox opened.
i pulled apart the intake and cleaned the throttle body and the recirc valve next to the tps. that is when the 0172 code popped in.
it does seem that in the morning after it has been sitting it runs ok for a little. then starts to act up after it is warm.
i just got a digital multimeter so i can test a little more now.
what is the voltage supposed to be at the fuel pump? maybe it is just a weak pump like you said at the beginning.
mumbles027
10-16-2008, 01:32 PM
i found a reciept for the upstream 02 sensor for the begining of this year. so this year i ahve replaced both 02 sensors, the map, the tps, the fuel filter, and the spark plugs. i also cleaned out the throttle body and intake manifold. and listened to the injectors when it ran bad and well with no sound difference.
lrning
01-12-2009, 07:23 AM
Mumblesxxx,
Do you fix your sluggish issue?
I have 97 Caravan 3.0 it has the same issue
1. start key work the second try (not the first try)
2. in the morning, in drive mode (D) the car moves (no jerking action) but it is sluggish, the engine rev up (I can hear and feel it) but the car does not accelerate !!!!. but after 7 minutes driving, the van performs better.
It seems weird only, when the engine is cold, after a long drive, it accelerates fine.
Vistal
01-12-2009, 10:02 PM
New wires? could be a bad coil pack? if any of the wires has breaks in it at lower idol it may have resistance and not spark right.
lrning
01-14-2009, 02:21 PM
97 Caravan 3.0 automatic transmission.
No I don't have new wires?
The engine runs very smooth in idle, no vibration.
Start very good too.
Just in the morning (or cold engine), the car does not accelerate, the engine rev up (louder noise) but no acceleration, It seems like the transmission is slipping or the solenoid pack does not move.
The problem (no acceleration) starts when the car reaches about 25-30 mph and very noticeable the first 7 minutes. Then thing gets better.
why electrical wires/parts act like this?
