SB Headers... High torque starter?

[76D100]

Im looking at getting some of these...

http://www.jegs.com/i/Dynomax/289/85036/10002/-1

Is my stock starter a "High Torque" one?

[Mopower79]

Yes..
A common problem when installing headers on our rigs..
You can bend the tube (on a brand new header ) for your stock stater..
But you will still have a hell of a time removing it later if it should go out!!
Easy solution..( not cheap ) get a mini starter..

http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/sum-820337_w.jpg
About 150.00
Link:
http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?Ntt=starter&N=700+4294908110+115+4294840085&Ntk=KeywordSearch

[Speed Dragon]

Stock starters are gear reduction type.

[Mopower79]

Stock starters are gear reduction type.

Yes ... But i think he was refering to the footnotes..

1/2, 3/4 Ton Trucks

Modification to stock exhaust required to retain catalytic converter system.
Will not fit to engines equipped with air injection pump.
Will not fit trucks with power take-off.
For applications with oxygen sensor use reducer part 289-88313 for 2-1/2'' 3-bolt flange or part 289-88314 for 3'' 3-bolt flange.
Will not fit with high-torque starter.

By "high- torque" I think they mean "gear reduction" .. Don't you???

[B-300]

I have seen old style starter with different length motors. (The round part) I wander if the longer is "high torque". You not the only one trying to figure out the answer.... There is someone else with a similair post in "engine tech" with the same problem with heddman headers.

[B-300]

The only reference to High torque starter of the factory old style starter I can find is at that some '75-up models that are hard to start used a 1.8 hp as opposed to the standard 1.5 hp starter.
I think this is what the foot note relates to.

[76D100]

Soooo, the headers will or will not fit with or without without modification?

[ramitupurs84]

You beat me too it. I asked the same exact question in the engine tech forum.

From what I've found the stock big bertha starter weighs 20#'s and the mini starter is about 9#'s.

There is a guy on ebay who sells brand news ones (its starter shop in TN I believe) and they go for about $70, the cheapest I've found.

Also I heard thos blackjacks are junk, no offense. I heard they leak like a sieve and everyone who's had them on a RC doesn't suggest them. I just ordered some heddman's for the exact same price and they seem to be the favorite for our trucks.

I am having a hard time with the erminalogy on the header notes as well. I wonder if they refer late area as the 70's or 90's when the mini starter was in use. My headers should be on my doorstep tommarow(6/17/08) and hopefully on by the weekend. I will try the big bertha starter and let yah know what happens.

But any takers on actual expierence as to if the mini starters will work in our cases?

[76D100]

my starter is new so im not in the mood for dropping another $100 for somthing to make my headers fit. This may be the start of a "Lets see if I can make headers" experiment.

Mabey I should weld the rocker on the truck first and then work on some of the other rust holes..

[B-300]

I assume the header notes refer to what could of come from the factory... I searched "dodge high torque starter" and other than the aftermarket starters and later model starters the only reference to factory starters for the 70's-80's I found was the one I mentioned in post #6.
It was a history of the starter on allpar.com. and doesn't give any info as to how to tell the "high torque" version from the standard one. It's about how to rebuild a starter.

[mikehopkinsjr]

Yes headers will fit with a stock starter, I used hedman's and there great. Just few tips I might suggest and will probably ruin the enjoyment of workin on the ol' truck.

1. Disconnect the battery, the first and last bolts/studs on the engine heads will let out coolant when you take them out, Although they should be little "studs" not bolts, and you can install the headers without even taking them out and draining the coolant (Yes I've done it and yes I cheated :cool:).

2. Once you cut out all the old pipes and remove the manifolds take out the starter and I if I remember right you gotta install the drivers side from the bottom. Then before you bolt the header up reinstall the starter then bolt the header up.

3. The passenger sides easy just install it from the top you most likely will have to take out the oil filter to fit it in there, and if you engines from a car like mine was it will have a 90deg adapter plate that puts the filter parallel with the engine and you'll have to go to Advanced Auto Parts and get a little plate (yea they got it).

And once you get finished 10:00pm on a Sunday and want to start her up, its always fun to floor it up and down the street a couple maybe several times
:rck: with open headers. Worst part of it all is when you have to go take it to the muffler man with the permanent crick in his neck to take all the fun and noise away.

[B-300]

I knew some one would have the answer, however I think the question was: Will a newer starter or high-torque aftermarket starter like that picture in post #2 of this thread fit?
I don't have a 4x4 truck so I can't say for sure. Also if you use the seach words "dodge high torque starter" on aol you will find other suppliers of this type starter for less than Summit.... I found a good rebuilt one for $25 at a Pick-n-Pull a few years ago.

[ramitupurs84]

Alright so Jegs had my headers at the house when I got off work. I took a couple of pictures. I dry fitted the left side with out gaskets and I did have a oil filter wrench to get my oil filter off so this is as far I got tonight.

On a the starter note, the mini-starter is a must as of right now. I took some pictures of how tight that area is as well! Enjoy:
http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z111/ramitupurs84/th_DSCN0758.jpg (http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z111/ramitupurs84/DSCN0758.jpg)
http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z111/ramitupurs84/th_DSCN0759.jpg (http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z111/ramitupurs84/DSCN0759.jpg)
http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z111/ramitupurs84/th_DSCN0760.jpg (http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z111/ramitupurs84/DSCN0760.jpg)
http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z111/ramitupurs84/th_DSCN0761.jpg (http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z111/ramitupurs84/DSCN0761.jpg)
http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z111/ramitupurs84/th_DSCN0762.jpg (http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z111/ramitupurs84/DSCN0762.jpg)
http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z111/ramitupurs84/th_DSCN0763.jpg (http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z111/ramitupurs84/DSCN0763.jpg)
http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z111/ramitupurs84/th_DSCN0764.jpg (http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z111/ramitupurs84/DSCN0764.jpg)
http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z111/ramitupurs84/th_DSCN0765.jpg (http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z111/ramitupurs84/DSCN0765.jpg)
http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z111/ramitupurs84/th_DSCN0766.jpg (http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z111/ramitupurs84/DSCN0766.jpg)
http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z111/ramitupurs84/th_DSCN0755.jpg (http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z111/ramitupurs84/DSCN0755.jpg)
http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z111/ramitupurs84/th_DSCN0756.jpg (http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z111/ramitupurs84/DSCN0756.jpg)
http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z111/ramitupurs84/th_DSCN0757.jpg (http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z111/ramitupurs84/DSCN0757.jpg)

[Speed Dragon]

I've always heard/seen the mini-starters referred to as the high-torque ones.

I think a lot depends on what brand of headers you get. I have no idea what brand mine are, but I know I could fairly easily remove and replace the stock starter w/o pulling the header loose.

[Delray Dude]

I've always heard/seen the mini-starters referred to as the high-torque ones.

I think a lot depends on what brand of headers you get. I have no idea what brand mine are, but I know I could fairly easily remove and replace the stock starter w/o pulling the header loose.


X2 here...


Never had a problem with a starter on a small block and headers.


I do encounter some difficulty removing the starter on the Charger with the 440 with the super comps.....a bit of header / starter juggling is key there...

[76D100]

Huray! My starter went for a crap last night after I tried fireing the truck up after running new fuel lines and a dual tank valve... it was only months old...

Mini starter perhaps?

[76D100]

Well, after my "new" starter died yesterday i went back to the parts shop (im there half as often as the guys who work there) and decided to upgrade to the "mini starter" for the approx $80 it was more then the return/ refund.

Well, it went on easy enough, it was raining and not bad until the cold water trickled down from the fender to my arm then to my arm pit wile i was tightening the starter up... that sucked. I had to drill out my small cable a little so i could tighten the nut on it. The large cable was no problem tho i found it a little more tricky to tighten the nuts then the stock starter.

It starts great and fast tho there is no resemblance to the classic "Fk*inear, Fk*inear, Fk*inear, Fk*inear" sound of the oriognal as well as the wind down after you let off the key...

Now, it is ALOT smaller then the oriognal and even more lighter, apparently the starter is an OEM part for the newer Dodges?... Could there be any problems still if I bought the headers now?

Its kinda crepey how all this happened now, what talking about headers and how i bought a new starter a wile back and not wanting to waste the money on a semi useless upgrade... so it dies and I upgrade anyway...

[ramitupurs84]

In all honesty I think your better off. Did they give you the core for the old big burtha towards the mini starter.

I have a feeling, with no reference of a mini starter's size you could get one in and possibly a older style with educated helper. Meaning not the 10 year old who you put up on a ladder to help the ole' man bolting the header to the block. My headers need to go from the botton up. I would assume it would be way easier/ safer to get the starter in the general area then just secure via rope or whatever then have someone pull the header up. I am just nervous putting stuff over head and in front of my face like a starter while trying to put on headers and see everything line up. I'd rather be the guy everyone says you don't need to do that, do this, then that and finally pulling on that pushing that back to make yadda yadda. I would rather do it a messed up way, keep my teeth and spare time from getting them replaced. Mini starter is next, do you mind sharing what you referenced for model, year, etc that the starter was for. Possibly a part number and was it like a Napa or something? If so part #?

[76D100]

Mini starter Part # DNWS17090

Because my parents had a buisness and still have an account with the main company of this franchise I get all parts and everything they sell at "Unit price" compared to Joe Schmo from across the road who gets them at "List" like parts, tools, oils, fastners... everything.

My big bertha cost list $109.73 unit was $88.90. Core $8

Mini was $204.18 and unit was $142.18 Core $30

So, with the return of the BB starter and return of the core accredited to my mini I only payed again $79.04 including the $30 core.

If you do this, have a small drill handy with an assortment of smaller bits to drill out your small wire connection to fit on the starter.

ratcheting wrenches are all i used to install (worth theyre weight in gas ;) )

If I were you I would just wate for my old starter to die then replace it with a mini unles you have another use for your old one or are simply dieing for headers.

[Speed Dragon]

'88-up have the small mini-style starter, trucks and vans anyway.

[76D100]

ramit, how do you like your new headers? im thinking within the next month I will get some of these. For near $100 you cant realy go wrong.

http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/30082/10002/-1

[ramitupurs84]

I finall dry fitted the other side, its cutting it close to the oil filter BUT I don't have the gaskets in or torqued to specs. I like them so far.

[76D100]

Remote oil filter? mount it somewhere on the fender easy to get to. I sure as hell am tired of leaning over the fender to try to get it on.

Who made your headers?

[ramitupurs84]

I went with Heddmans, nothing special just the black painted version. Well I went this this starter that someone on another dodge site suggested and its new check it out!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&viewitem=&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.ebay.com%3A80%2Fsearch%2Fse arch.dll%3Ffrom%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm37%26satitle%3D 370061658100%26category0%3D%26fvi%3D1&item=370061658100

I think it will be fine just axious, I am sure you checked the pictures out thats 2 years and counting since the last time I've heard it run.

[Speed Dragon]

Remote oil filter? mount it somewhere on the fender easy to get to. I sure as hell am tired of leaning over the fender to try to get it on.I always put mine on from underneath.

Also talked to a friend today w/ a 4x4 Dodge and Hooker headers, said he had to get a mini-starter also, the old starter physically wouldn't fit.