I finally obtained some new wheels for my 2000 Neon. The only thing is they're 17's rather than the stock 14's and I'd like to drop the car a bit to eliminate the gap.
What specifically should I know about doing this before making any purchases? Most of what I've been looking at are Eibach springs and most say they'll lower the suspension about 1.8 - 2.0 inches. Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Also, how much could I expect to pay on average for installation of these?
rice_eater
06-08-2008, 12:07 PM
Proggressive rate springs (i.e. Eibachs) are a big no-no for 1st Gens. They eat up struts like mad because they arent stiff enough to keep the suspension from bottoming out. Stock travel is 3", drop it 1.5-2" and you're left with 1-1.5" of travel and since the progressive rate spring is softer to start the suspension bottoms out before ever getting to the stiff part of the spring that's supposed to keep it from bottoming out. I don't know if the same holds true for 2nd Gens, but I believe the suspension is very similar.
The way to lower a 1st Gen is with constant rate springs, and the only ones I know of are Mopar Highrates (1" drop) and Mopar Xtra-Highrates (1.5" drop), both of which have been discontinued and are no longer available new. Your other option is of course coilovers (the real deal, not ebay conversion crap) which is rather spendy. Again, just saying what I know about 1st Gens, don't know if the same holds true for 2nd Gens. Maybe Hoodoo or Alaska can chime in here.
B_Scott
06-08-2008, 04:15 PM
Yeah, the amount of clearance I'd have is what else I was thinking about. If I had the money to throw in to coilovers I'd do it but I really don't right now.
rice_eater
06-09-2008, 11:27 PM
I wonder if 1st Gen and 2nd Gen springs are the same... something to look into. Then you could use Highrates.
sohc98
06-10-2008, 12:22 AM
Proggressive rate springs (i.e. Eibachs) are a big no-no for 1st Gens. They eat up struts like mad because they arent stiff enough to keep the suspension from bottoming out. Stock travel is 3", drop it 1.5-2" and you're left with 1-1.5" of travel and since the progressive rate spring is softer to start the suspension bottoms out before ever getting to the stiff part of the spring that's supposed to keep it from bottoming out. I don't know if the same holds true for 2nd Gens, but I believe the suspension is very similar.
The way to lower a 1st Gen is with constant rate springs, and the only ones I know of are Mopar Highrates (1" drop) and Mopar Xtra-Highrates (1.5" drop), both of which have been discontinued and are no longer available new. Your other option is of course coilovers (the real deal, not ebay conversion crap) which is rather spendy. Again, just saying what I know about 1st Gens, don't know if the same holds true for 2nd Gens. Maybe Hoodoo or Alaska can chime in here.
Is their any aftermarket brands out their besides the mopars that will work well witha neon? Iv been looking into lowering mine and i was trying to decide between k-sports or skunk2 but idk now and i dont really want to spend 1000 bucks on coilovers. Would lowering springs work better with aftermarket struts?
alaskaneon
06-10-2008, 04:18 AM
I've heard that you can use 1 gen springs on a 2nd gen and that lowers it a bit...but I don't know for sure. The big thing you need to know is to NOT mix lowering springs with stock struts. You will blow them out. So, if you are going to go with lowering springs you need to buy new aftermarket struts to go with them. This is, among several other reasons, why I went with coilovers. You will be out approx. $500 dollars by the time you buy lowering springs and new struts. Coilovers are going to run from $900 up. The megan coilovers I'm running are just plain sweet. They have independant camber, spring rate, dampening, and hight control on each one which gives you an infinate amount of control. If you live in a place where you run winter tires coilovers are your best option.
rice_eater
06-10-2008, 11:07 PM
Proggressive rate lowering springs (i.e. any and all lowering springs other than the Mopars) will blow out stock struts and aftermarket struts! Only difference is you can usually work the warranty on the aftermarket struts to get one or two free sets before the parts store catches on that you're screwing them over.
SOHC98 - A guy in Milwaukee is selling a set of Mopar Highrates on the .org right now ($175 i think?). I sorta know the guy, know the springs. Sold my purple turbo car to him, he apparently removed the Mopars that were in it and is selling them. Good guy to deal with. awesomears is his screen name.
sohc98
06-10-2008, 11:13 PM
Proggressive rate lowering springs (i.e. any and all lowering springs other than the Mopars) will blow out stock struts and aftermarket struts! Only difference is you can usually work the warranty on the aftermarket struts to get one or two free sets before the parts store catches on that you're screwing them over.
SOHC98 - A guy in Milwaukee is selling a set of Mopar Highrates on the .org right now ($175 i think?). I sorta know the guy, know the springs. Sold my purple turbo car to him, he apparently removed the Mopars that were in it and is selling them. Good guy to deal with. awesomears is his screen name.
Is this true for all cars lowering springs, if so i might have an angry friend soon. We just lowered his 06 sentra S-ER abut a week ago with teins.
If i could buy them now i would but it will be a while befor i have the money, gotta pay off my new motor first. :mad:
alaskaneon
06-11-2008, 04:30 AM
:dunno: There are guys who have over 50K on thier springs and struts and everything is working just fine.
rice_eater
06-11-2008, 11:05 PM
Is this true for all cars lowering springs, if so i might have an angry friend soon. We just lowered his 06 sentra S-ER abut a week ago with teins.
Proggressive rate springs work great on most cars. But most cars have anywhere from 5-8 inches of suspension travel. To understand why they don't work well on a neon, you first have to understand what a progressive rate spring is. On a stock spring (otherwise known as a constant rate spring) the coils are evenly spaced, giving it a constant spring rate. As in, Xlbs per inch of compression. Its a constant rate no matter how much the spring is compressed. For example, say the springrate is 230lbs/inch. 230lbs will compress the spring 1 inch, 460lbs will compress it 2 inches, 690lbs - 3 inches, etc... Its a constant rate, see? Now on a progressive rate spring, the coils are NOT evenly spaced, causing the springrate to increase the father the spring is compressed. So say the 1st inch of compression might only be 200lbs, but after it is compressed that one inch the next inch of compression might be 250lbs, and the next inch 300lbs. That would mean 1" = 200lbs, 2" = 450lbs, 3" = 750lbs. See the difference? A progressive rate spring gets stiffer the father it is compressed. This is great for most lowering springs, because a softer ride is maintained under minimum suspension travel, yet the spring gets "stiffer" when pushed to its limits (such as in a hard corner) for better handling and to prevent bottomming out the suspension.
Now here's the problem with this. Most cars as I said, have 5-8" of suspension travel. 1G neons have 3". This poses a problem for progressive rate springs, such as the Eibach's. Say you drop the car 1.5" with a progressive rate spring. Now you have 1.5" before the suspension bottoms out, BUT the first part of your progressive spring is SOFT for a better ride. The problem is that the suspension bottoms out before the really stiff part of the spring intended to prevent this is reached. This is why progressive springs will eat struts, not necessarily because of the spring, but because of its inability to prevent the neons very short suspension from bottoming out.
Hope this helps you understand it all.
sohc98
06-11-2008, 11:16 PM
Hope this helps you understand it all.
It does, but now iv got another question for you, HOW DO YOU KNOW SO MUCH?
rice_eater
06-11-2008, 11:28 PM
God blessed me with an incredibly ability to understand mechanical operation (how stuff works). ;)
alaskaneon
06-12-2008, 01:00 AM
oh ya rice. Here's one for ya. Explain how girls think and work. lol
sohc98
06-12-2008, 01:39 AM
oh ya rice. Here's one for ya. Explain how girls think and work. lol
ha thats an easy one : all girls are crazy.
rice_eater
06-13-2008, 11:03 PM
Girls think? I thought they just act on what feels right... :huh:
alaskaneon
06-13-2008, 11:28 PM
ahhh! so you want to get philosophical huh! thought can be fueled by logical deduction or irrational emotion.
