Oil change philosophy/ break in time??

[Asmodaus]

There are as many opinions as there are brands of oil, but, I'm interested in what everyone is doing with their new durangos' oil needs.

I got my Durango with 340 miles. The manual says it's already broken in, but I'm still taking it a little easy. I'm up to 1600 miles now.

I heard at one place to change the oil at 1000 miles then every 3000. The first change is to clear out all the debris from break in. Don't use synthetics until after 10000 miles because they are so effective at limiting wear they actually impair engine break in. Just what I heard. Any stong opinions here? Any tips on brands and weight for the 5.7 litre hemi?

Thanks

[dodgeatheart]

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

Read that. The first 10, 20, 300, 1000 miles are very important. Beyond that, you really don't have to worry too much about the physical breaking-in of the engine.

Personally, I would change the oil with regular oil within the first 1000 miles. Afterwards, every 3000-4000 miles would be sufficient. I would not use synthetic, however, until after the first 3000 miles because it does hinder the break-in process.

Brands, well, I've recently learned that Pennzoil (once a favorite) is one of the worst you can use. Valvoline is now one of the more respected brands, as is Mobil 1. That's just word from friends, etc who I just happen to talk to about this stuff.

Also note, if the link above sounds far-fetched, your OWNERS MANUAL states that "full throttle accleration (not in first gear)... helps the break-in process".

[sgbofav]

The first oil change is important to rid the engine of excess, wear-in metals. There wont be actual shavings but rather high concentrations of "metal dust" measured in parts per million. The first 500 to 1500 miles on a new engine is best done with petroleum oil.


Once you have driven the first 500 to 1500 miles, the majority of engine "break-in" has already occured. If you were to switch to a group 4, full synthetic oil at 1500 miles, the engine will still in fact "break-in". This has been proven many times by oil analysis results showing increased wear metals on engines running synthetic oil. In fact some wear metals wont be reduced until the engine has over 10,000 miles regardless of oil type.


Bill,

[brillo]

Asmodaus,

Just to let you know, you can put synthetic motor oil in your vehicle at anytime. Check this site out. It's mobil1.com: http://www.mobil1.com/index.jsp Mustang Cobras, Corvettes, Vipers, All Aston Martins, & other cars come from the factory with Mobil1 already in them!!! Any other site on synthetic motor oil will tell you the same thing. Put it in as soon as you can, don't wait.

[dodgeatheart]

Asmodaus,

Any other site on synthetic motor oil will tell you the same thing. Put it in as soon as you can, don't wait.


And if I were selling synthetic motor oil, I'd probably say the same thing. Vehicles that come with synthetic in them usually have heat and oil dispersement issues when manufactured, hence using synthetic to cure the problem for production.

[brillo]

Asmodaus,

It's simple chemistry. The chemical properties of synthetic oil make them better than conventional oil. Check this site out: http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/oil-life.html

This independent site is in the processing of testing several synthetic oils including Mobil1, AMSoil, Royal Purple, and Red Line. If your still not convinced, I encourage you to do more research on your own. Synthetic is better than convetional motor oil.

[dodgeatheart]

Asmodaus,

It's simple chemistry. The chemical properties of synthetic oil make them better than conventional oil. Check this site out: http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/oil-life.html

This independent site is in the processing of testing several synthetic oils including Mobil1, AMSoil, Royal Purple, and Red Line. If your still not convinced, I encourage you to do more research on your own. Synthetic is better than convetional motor oil.


No doubt, it is. And I'm not questioning that. But what you seem to be missing in my statements is that synthetic oil is NOT what you want to use during break-in periods. The synthetics are too "slick" to help the seating of the rings during break-in. Granted, the rings will seat with synthetic oil, but by using synthetic, you extend the seating period for the rings, therefore extending your break-in period. It has not been proven yet, but it's possible that synthetic may even hinder proper seating of the rings.

Once again, read this, understand it. http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

[brillo]

dodgeatheart,

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I read the break in secrets when you originally posted it. However, Asmodaus said that he got his car with 340-miles on it & already has 1,600-miles. The link stated that the first 20-miles are the most critical to proper ring seal. Since he got the car with more than 20-miles on it & it's got 1,600mi. shouldn't it be fine for him to put in synthetic?

[sgbofav]

And if I were selling synthetic motor oil, I'd probably say the same thing. Vehicles that come with synthetic in them usually have heat and oil dispersement issues when manufactured, hence using synthetic to cure the problem for production.

They are also made with different types of metals which break-in faster with synthetics. By switching to synthetic too quickly, you inhibit and or extend the engine break-in time. No one here is saying you can't switch to synthetic oil ASAP. What we are saying is it is beneficial to run petroleum oil for the initial 500 to up to 3000 miles. I have linked to the "oil study" as well as www.bobistheoilguy.com many times on previous threads.

Brillo,

If you think I'm BSing, read this article from Dave Mann a Degreed Mechanical and Truck/Automotive Engineers on the net with 19 years experience specializing in engine, powertrain/chassis engineering, performance and synthetic motor oil lubrication and filtration right here in Detroit, MI

First, if you have a brand new vehicle we recommend that you run a short cycle of petroleum oil on a gas engine passenger car or light truck (typically 500 miles) and approximately 5000 miles on a diesel engine in such as a Ford Powerstroke or Dodge Cummins Turbo Diesel before installing AMSOIL. This doesn't mean that you can't install AMSOIL sooner, as many OEM's install synthetics as a factory fill, it simply means these are our recommendations based on our extensive engineering studies and knowledge of this topic. Today's modern engine manufacturing and materials technology is much more sophisticated than in years past. Regular gas engine passenger cars and light truck engines do not require the extensive break in process many people think they do. In addition, by the time you get your new vehicle the engine has already been through a series of hot tests also run on in-plant chassis rolls testers to check functionality of all systems and then driven around the plant and railhead in order to get the vehicle to the dealer, which also helps accelerate breaking in of the engine.

The engine break-in issue is the subject of much controversy as everyone seems to have their opinion on when an engine is considered fully broken in. The information we provide is based on the results of engineering studies as well as many years of experience and teardown analysis on test vehicles. The differences between a vehicle that was properly and fully broken in and one that was not can often be hard to detect, yet there are tell-tale signs of this but they are not easily detected except in all but the most extreme situations. The subject of what occurs during the break-in process can easily be the subject of a 100 page report therefore what we cover in this website page is only the essential points you need to know. The break-in process we describe here is nothing compared to the extensive break-in process that race car engineers go through before an engine is ready to be converted to AMSOIL synthetic oil as well as racing in competition.

Breaking in an engine is a process of properly wearing-in the pistons/cylinders/rings, bearings, valves, camshaft, lifters, rockers, etc... In addition, part of the breaking in process is not only wearing-in and seating the internal engine components but also stress relieving the components as well. Crankshafts, connecting rods, pistons, blocks etc... have many stresses due to the casting or forging process, machining and welding process. We have viewed and measured these stresses, called fringes, using what is called lazer holography. These stresses are properly reduced/eliminated by costly and time consuming heat aging as well as shot peening and or high frequency vibration on a very specialized bedplate for an extended period of time. For production applications this is cost and time prohibitive. Therefore, the next best thing is exposing your engine to multiple heating and cooling cycles under various load and RPM's, which is described in the following paragraph. The heating and cooling break in process continues over a period of time and does not need to be run on petroleum oil.

Breaking in a new engine is the one area that petroleum oil is better for than synthetics. You see, petroleum oil has a very low film strength which is ideal for breaking in a new engine. That is why we recommend you run the factory installed petroleum oil for about the about the first 500 miles. Then drain the oil, remove the factory installed oil filter and then install AMSOIL Synthetic motor oil and an AMSOIL Super Duty oil filter and your ready to go.

Further heat cycling break-in will continue during the multiple heating and cooling cycles from driving your vehicle under varying RPM and engine load conditions and then shutting it down for a long period of time to let it cool completely. The multiple heating and cooling cycles are a extremely important factor in properly breaking in a new engine and are often an overlooked factor in the total break-in process. These heating and cooling cycles achieve what is called stress relieving. Back in the "old days" of engine manufacturing, after casting and before an engine block was machined, it would be set outside for several months to age, during which stress relieving occurred naturally, then the block was machined, which helped to produce a better engine than one that was machined immediately after casting.

By changing the factory installed oil and filter after the first 500 miles you will also be removing the initial wear-in particulates present in the oil and filter. The reason for this is that during initial wear-in there is very high particulate contamination in the oil. These particulates consist mainly of microscopic particles of aluminum, bronze, copper, lead and iron, plus soot particles and other by-products of combustion in your oil. Your filter cannot filter out all these small particulates as many are sub-micron size and too small for the filter to trap, BUT they are also small enough to fit between your bearing and other internal clearances and cause wear. That is why we recommend to that in order to properly break-in a new engine, regardless of what your new car salesman or dealership personnel tell you, is to perform the first oil and filter change at 500 miles. Then you can convert to AMSOIL Synthetic. On a diesel engine we recommend the initial filter and oil change at 500 miles, with another change around 3500 miles, then in the 5000 mile range you can convert to AMSOIL Synthetic Oil.

[dodgeatheart]

dodgeatheart,

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I read the break in secrets when you originally posted it. However, Asmodaus said that he got his car with 340-miles on it & already has 1,600-miles. The link stated that the first 20-miles are the most critical to proper ring seal. Since he got the car with more than 20-miles on it & it's got 1,600mi. shouldn't it be fine for him to put in synthetic?


At 1600, yes. sgbofav says 500 miles is good for the switchover and I'd say the both of us are pretty much singing the same song. Changing the oil within the first 1000 miles IS important to remove debris created from the break-in process, regardless of which type of oil you use.

[brillo]

sgbofav,

I don't doubt anything anyone has said. I only meant to let Asmodaus know that, from what I've read, he can put synthetic oil in his car now. He said he's already got 1,600-miles on it and since he originally posted this on 3/6/04, he's undoubtedly got many more miles than that by now. As far as which oil brand I can't really say if one is better than another, but the link I posted above is in the process of doing their own test on synth oils by having the oil analyzed every 1,000 miles(testing viscocity, TBN, insolubles, & wear metals). I'm almost sure that any good brand synthetic would suffice.

[sgbofav]

I'm glad we are all singing the same song now. We all agree the first 500 to 1000 miles is the most critical for break-in.


Brillo,

The oil life study is being discussed on www.bobistheoilguy.com by Chemists, tribiogists and other "oil geeks" . They discuss and debate the results, every 1000 miles. I have learned quite a bit regarding lubrication by frequently visiting their forums.

Bill,

[1badredbird]

Way back in 86 when I had a 383 Magnum built for me, the builder told me that it was extremely important to get my oil and filter changed at 500 miles-no more! I did, & promptly took it out & beat the crap out of it! He said run it (after the 1st 500 K) like you want it to run! I still have the motor in my car, with Mobil 1 SuperSyn, and it screams!

[lbj1251]

If it's so important to change the oil after the first 1000 miles, why doesn't the owners manual make this a requirement? Do D/C's engineers agree with this?

[dodgeatheart]

If it's so important to change the oil after the first 1000 miles, why doesn't the owners manual make this a requirement? Do D/C's engineers agree with this?


DCX doesn't want your engine lasting 150,000-200,000 miles...at least without an overhaul (parts sales). They want you back in the showroom in 5 years buying a new car.

Your choice - I made mine...my 2nd oil change is coming up at 4000 miles.

[SLED]

I'm at 6700 miles, is it a prob to switch to synthetic? There is no correct time to switch, is there?

[lbj1251]

Dodgeheart, I changed my oil today at 1000 miles. I'll change it again at 3, then switch to synthetic at 6. Think that's a good time to switch? I have the 4.7. Thanks.................

[dodgeatheart]

I honestly don't see why you cannot switch to synthetic at 1000 miles. You are beyond break-in at this point. If you really want to be cautious, wait until 3000 miles.

This thread is for all engines, not just the Hemi.

[dodgeatheart]

-bump-

[GWR]

I have used Pennzoil for over 35 years now and have not had a bit of trouble with it. I have a Nissan Truck with over 250000 miles on it and a Durango 2004 with 10000. Have changed oil every 3000 miles and have not had one :cool: drop of oil found on any pavement or a problem from the vehicles. To each his own. Philosophy down the drane. Use what you think is the best!