What Do You Mean It Took All Day To Replace The Starter?!

[OccW200]

This was just kind of funny to me. So i got new edelbrock 4-2-1 headers for my 77 w200 4wd. The difference was amazing! But recently the starter went out, no big deal, i've replaced it before....with the old headers.... the new headers wouldnt allow the starter to drop out, so i had to disconnect the headers completely, and jack up the motor just to replace the damn thing. who knew a starter would take all day to replace lol

[Dodgevanman]

Did you replace it with the old school Mopar starter or one of the newer Denso starters?

[moparedtn]

Did you have a starter heat shield on it?
If those headers are so close to it that you gotta remove them to get it out,
chances are heat from the headers killed your starter.

[Delray Dude]

reminds me of the time i had with a 400 in a Charger - that was a learning experiance - it took all day, as the header was wrapped all around the thing and required removal of the header and jockeying of the engine...then after it came out, trying to re-create the same movements to get the new one in

[bherder]

Hey, don't forget about all the coolant everywhere when you take the front/rear header bolts out... That's always been my favorite part.. :D :D :D

[Delray Dude]

Hey, don't forget about all the coolant everywhere when you take the front/rear header bolts out... That's always been my favorite part.. :D :D :D

Yes. That gave me a cardiac arrest when I was doing the starter - I was young and dumb to Mopars and once I realized that the header had to be free, well, removing the 1st bolt and a nice stream of green came out....boy have i learned alot since then!!!

[OccW200]

yeah, coolant dripped like all freaking day from that thing. the starter was just a reman. one, so it was the same size and everything, i'm not worried about the heat because where the starter is mounted its a good 3 or 4 inches from the header, we just couldn't get it out after we un bolted it and everything. waiting for ups to bring me my new front driveline right now !!!! i cant wait to see how fun that is....

[bherder]

Did you have a starter heat shield on it?
If those headers are so close to it that you gotta remove them to get it out,
chances are heat from the headers killed your starter.

Y'know there Occ .... I agree with this 100% ....
Now, there are some who have NEVER had a problem with headers cooking a starter, but I've had two rigs (A Roadrunner with a 440 and a Duster with a 340) where I installed headers and the starter lasted a month or two before it fried. The RR was the worst case senerio. I went through 3 starters ( Of course, I was 18 and really didn't know any better) and kept thinking it was a shoddy rebuild. The guy at the local Speed Shop clued me in, got a heat-shield for the starter and never had a prob with it till the day I sold it...
Years later, I only went through one starter with the Duster, till I remembered, 'Ahhh Heat shield...'
Anyway, you may never have a prob, OR the headers are what caused the prob... But knowing what a PITA it is to R&R the starter with headers, you just might wanna install a little extra 'insurance'... ;)

[84 Ram]

Hey, don't forget about all the coolant everywhere when you take the front/rear header bolts out... That's always been my favorite part.. :D :D :D

I always keep the studs in the front and rear bolt holes for that reason.

[Speed Dragon]

The headers fit a bit tighter on the cars than they do on the trucks, I think that's why I've never fried a starter from header heat.

[OccW200]

yeah, i definitely hear what your guys are saying. but the old starter teeth were completely hammered, somehow the flywheel didn't sustain any vital damage. so the starter was defnitely trashed, and heat doesn't seem to be the answer.... where would i get a shield like that? just make one or what?

[moparedtn]

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i319/moparedtn/17.jpg

Nice description of our gear-reduction starters here by Rick Ehrenberg (http://www.allpar.com/history/mopar/electrical3-starters.html)

Nowadays, finding the sheetmetal heat shield may prove to be challenging. Lots of places sell generic foil-backed insulating "blankets" with straps, which work just fine, just keep these trimmed back from the wiring connections.

[Delray Dude]

Now, there are some who have NEVER had a problem with headers cooking a starter,


I fall in to that category.....

Aside from the initial starter replacement - it was old and dead and needed to be replace, I've never fried a starter wrapped by headers and have no heat shield.

Case #1: '69 Charger with 400 big block - was the one I replaced the starter....nightmare learning...

Case #2 '69 Charger with 318. Was probably the original starter or had seen some miles on it. I put the hearders on this one, no problems - sold the car.

Case #3 '76 Cordoba with 400. I know that it still has the original starter (bought the car with 65,000 original miles - grandma driven (till I got it)) - I acquired the headers from a friend and installed in the car - that was a PITA - although the drivers side slide in no problem - the passenger side would not clear the torsion bar and the trans case coming up or down. Had to seperate the motor and trans to get it in position but after that - went right in...
however - drove the car daily (with A/C) for 30,000 miles - no problems with the starter.

And I live in the south where the heat is allways around.

Maybe I just have had good luck?!?!?!?

[bherder]

yeah, i definitely hear what your guys are saying. but the old starter teeth were completely hammered, somehow the flywheel didn't sustain any vital damage. so the starter was defnitely trashed, and heat doesn't seem to be the answer.... where would i get a shield like that? just make one or what?

Heh heh heh .... Back in the day... When you could still buy the stuff... I used to make them out of asbestos gasket material. About 3 wraps around the whole thing and held it all on with a big hose clamp. Worked very well ;)

[moparedtn]

I fall in to that category.....

Aside from the initial starter replacement - it was old and dead and needed to be replace, I've never fried a starter wrapped by headers and have no heat shield.

Case #1: '69 Charger with 400 big block - was the one I replaced the starter....nightmare learning...

Case #2 '69 Charger with 318. Was probably the original starter or had seen some miles on it. I put the hearders on this one, no problems - sold the car.

Case #3 '76 Cordoba with 400. I know that it still has the original starter (bought the car with 65,000 original miles - grandma driven (till I got it)) - I acquired the headers from a friend and installed in the car - that was a PITA - although the drivers side slide in no problem - the passenger side would not clear the torsion bar and the trans case coming up or down. Had to seperate the motor and trans to get it in position but after that - went right in...
however - drove the car daily (with A/C) for 30,000 miles - no problems with the starter.

And I live in the south where the heat is allways around.

Maybe I just have had good luck?!?!?!?

Some do. Some don't.
Those that do either go for the easy fix (heat shield) or alter other components to compensate.
I've had Mopars that needed them and ones that didn't. A lot depended on what brand of header, really. How close the tubes came to the starter, how hot the engine runs, what climate, all that jazz, etc.

Interesting to note that several manufacturers (especially those running smaller turbo critters and such) come with shields from the factory nowadays.

[bherder]

Some do. Some don't.
Those that do either go for the easy fix (heat shield) or alter other components to compensate.
I've had Mopars that needed them and ones that didn't. A lot depended on what brand of header, really. How close the tubes came to the starter, how hot the engine runs, what climate, all that jazz, etc.

Interesting to note that several manufacturers (especially those running smaller turbo critters and such) come with shields from the factory nowadays.

Heh heh heh ... I look at it this way.... It's like changing your oil every 3,000 miles... Just 'Cheap Insurance' .... ;)

[moparedtn]

One learns that the first time they spend all day swapping a starter, usually. ;)