Fuel pump. Another kick at the dead horse.

[Only run'n on 1]

Greetings. I have suffered from the weak, or going away fuel pump syndrome, on a 96 2500 318c.i. for a long time. Excessive cold cranking, and the disrupted performance at 3/8 of a tank. I now turn the key on and off about 5 times each morning, and it bandaids the cranking issue. My big concern is this; are the more inexpensive pumps such as Airtex, worth the bother? There is a huge price difference. Any experiences to share? How long can a lazy owner operate at these conditions also? Will it just up and quit at some time, if I neglect immediate replacement? Thanks.

[alloro]

One day it will fail completely and for most people, it's always at the worst time. Whether or not you want to go through every day wondering if this is the day you're going to get stranded with that chili cheese dog gurgling through your system is up to you.

As far as the brand, go with the pump from the dealer only.

[Dodgevanman]

As far as the brand, go with the pump from the dealer only.

I concur with this wholeheartedly. My friend's Jeep Grand Cherokee had a bad pump and we put two aftermarket pumps in, one Master and one Carter brand and they both went bad within a month. He finally went OEM and hasn't had a problem since.

You'll pay a bit more at the dealer, but it's better than being stuck on the road.

[Only run'n on 1]

Thanks. I was hoping to hear some good reviews for some alternative manufacturers. I don't quite understand why no other pump manufacturer can get a fuel pump right. I mean really.....it's a pump. How do these other companies stay in business? When I search the net for an OEM Dodge pump, I get a number for a Delphi. E3000-149022. I can also find ones by ACDelco and a couple of others for non OEM. This belief that nothing except OEM will be suitable, wouldn't happen to be a mental stigma would it ? You know, sort of like "only Dodge knows how to make a truck"...........

[alloro]

This belief that nothing except OEM will be suitable, wouldn't happen to be a mental stigma would it ?

Our view of 'only OEM' when it comes to the fuel pump is based on the experiences of others, not personal opinion.

[Dodgevanman]

I wouldn't call it a mental stigma. I call it personal experience. That Jeep with the two aftermarket pumps left me and my buddy stranded...twice. New Mopar pump for over two years now and it's still going.


try www.chryslerpartsdirect.com for the pump.

[Only run'n on 1]

Thanks fellows. I'm a fuel pump idiot who was hoping to be told that the cheap replacement was fine, when in fact it is not. Since I have never even replaced one pump, and you two have handled many, I shall heed your advice. I know the extra money spent now will save extra money and grief down the road. Thanks for that.

[RamVanMan]

Hi guys: Long time no posting here at Dodge Talk Van Forums !

Nate, good to see you are constant here. Some things never change - great ! (I wonder if Stev is still hanging out, as well ?)

I hope only run'n on 1 gets his new OEM pump installed.

Maybe he can tell us what it cost. I think my '96 Ram Van had a new one shortly before I bought it - prior owner said it wasn't cheap.

Now I hear it making a very distinct noise - a kind of rythmic whining noise - when I stand at the rear of the van - it's not super loud, but loud enough to hear distinctly over the exhaust note.

Can anyone say if this is indicative of a failing fuel pump ? Also, is the fuel filter part of the assembly ?

Thanks for your help !

David B.
Ram Van Man

[landyacht318]

Hi guys: Long time no posting here at Dodge Talk Van Forums !


Now I hear it making a very distinct noise - a kind of rythmic whining noise - when I stand at the rear of the van - it's not super loud, but loud enough to hear distinctly over the exhaust note.

Can anyone say if this is indicative of a failing fuel pump ? Also, is the fuel filter part of the assembly ?

Thanks for your help !

David B.
Ram Van Man
2 weeks before my fuel pump quit it was whining with some harmonics having their say as well. I was able to hear it over my flowmaster 50, and somehow convinced myself that noise was always there.

I wound up replacing it off the side of Mex 1 in Baja on the dirt with 25 gallons still in the tank. I replaced it with a Carter. No problems but I'm sure my pump on an '89 is different.

When I hooked up voltage to the old removed pump, it would buzz so violently it was difficult to hold. Sometimes it wouldn't start till I gave it a whack.

When I have to replace it again, I'm cutting an access panel in the floor when I've got the gas tank out.
Welcome back

[RamVanMan]

2 weeks before my fuel pump quit it was whining with some harmonics having their say as well. I was able to hear it over my flowmaster 50, and somehow convinced myself that noise was always there.

I wound up replacing it off the side of Mex 1 in Baja on the dirt with 25 gallons still in the tank. I replaced it with a Carter. No problems but I'm sure my pump on an '89 is different.

When I hooked up voltage to the old removed pump, it would buzz so violently it was difficult to hold. Sometimes it wouldn't start till I gave it a whack.

When I have to replace it again, I'm cutting an access panel in the floor when I've got the gas tank out.
Welcome back


landyacht318:

Thanks for the feedback - what a story. Hoping to fix this in our driveway, God willing & with your kind advice. ;)

My noise sounds identical to your description. It has been doing so for maybe 4 months or so.

If your '89 pump is in the tank, maybe they are the same pump -identical ? Mine is a 1996 B 2500.

I like the idea of a floor access panel - in a cargo van that's great - in our conversion you'd still have to move seats, pull carpet - no advantage I can see.

Questions:

Anyone know the cost of the OEM fuel pump ? :WHT:

Anyone ever seen or tried to engineer an aftermarket unit that could mount outside the tank ?

Is there anything so special with this pump ?

[I know guys on the Cummins Ram truck page have a engineered a completely "non-OEM" electric fuel pump to replace & improve performance over Dodges trouble prone & spendy OEM one.

I think it's called the FASS fuel pump. I understand it's become something of a 'mandatory upgrade', for all 24 valve Cummins Ram's. (thankfully my Cummins Ram is a 12 valve '97 !)]

Perhaps our Ram Vans could benefit from a 'non-tank' pump upgrade ? :IDEA:

Stev, are you reading the mail ? Hope so, brother !

Bless you one & all,

David B.
Ram Van Man

[landyacht318]

I'm pretty sure they are not the same pump. I was able to remove just the pump from the sender unit and float. I think I've read on this forum how 96 and newer must be replaced as a complete unit. Also my gas tank is just in front of the rear bumper so an access panel is more viable.

If you decide to keep driving it, at least order and have the new oem unit waiting.

Here in California they've started checking if the fuel tank itself holds pressure. On the side of the road in Mexico, I never replaced the gasket on the top of the tank itself and will most likely fail this new test. If I had an access panel...

[alloro]

Anyone know the cost of the OEM fuel pump?

About $300

[Dodgevanman]

The pump, regulator, sender, and filter are all part of a single unit on the 92-up vans.

[RamVanMan]

Ok this is helpful.

I just figured out why the whining noise is so loud - I'm hearing it with the tank mostly empty. I just filled up and it's not even discernable as before.

Also noted someone said it's better for the life of the pump to not run the tank to empty repeatedly. I'll change my habits, forthwith.

I did many searches and could find zero refrences to 'external, in-line pumps' for Ram Vans (or trucks).

All I can figure is that due to emissions & engineering realities, the stock configuration is the 'only way' to go.

Therefore, the only possible cost savings versus OEM is to use a NAPA or 'AirTex' brand, maybe bought at a store offering a lifetime or extended warranty so if it fails at least we're only out our labor.

I went to Chrysler Parts direct like Nate said, they listed $ 435 for it, and I think the AirTex brand was about half that.

The funny noise mine made has me wondering. It only makes it when the tank is near empty.

thanks, DB

[RamVanMan]

Ok here's a page that shows various types of pumps for our vans. The text for the Delphi ones states that they 'meet or exceed OEM quality'. Wonder if that's true ? I hear what Nate & others testify - but maybe these ARE the OEM units.

http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/mmp/dodge~b2500~fuel_pump~parts.html

I think Stev here used to work for Delphi - Stev any thoughts ?

DB

[Only run'n on 1]

My research also indicates that the Delphi E3000-149022 IS the OEM pump. If you look at prostreetonline, they state that this is the very pump that you will receive at a Dodge/Plymouth/Chrysler dealer. They are asking $254.91. I have not reached the parts department at the nearest dealer yet, (2 attempts, too busy to take calls both times) but I will try to chisel the part number out of them. The Mopar sites don't give a part number, but the average cost is $403-$435. MSRP is $500 plus, which is what I expect from the dealer. They may come down if they want the sale???

[RamVanMan]

Wow, thanks for digging that up !

That's the route I'd go. Autozone offers an extended or unlimited warranty (other chain stores too ?) on some items. It might be worth a call to see if they or their competitors can:

1) Get the Delphi / OEM pump for a similar deal to prostreetonline.

2) Offer it with an extended or unlimted warranty - allieviating any fears of, as Nate shared, "a short lived, hassle to change pump" inferior to OEM quality pump.

Now I'm kinda bummed that my pump appears NOT to be failing !

Please let us know what you decide to do.

David

[alloro]

Now I'm kinda bummed that my pump appears NOT to be failing!

Yeah...sure you are! ;)

[leeann]

Autozone offers an extended or unlimited warranty (other chain stores too ?) on some items.


I'll chime in here. My boyfriend had a '90 Plymouth Voyager/3.3 L that he had the fuel pump fail on - twice. With the Autozone/Advance Auto "Lifetime Guarantee" pump in it. I think they lasted 6 months....tops.

If you can find the OEM pump cheaper, go for it. But I doubt you will find it at the above stores - if they don't have it in stock, they have no idea how to find it (they're computer jockeys, not parts guys).

[Only run'n on 1]

I got through to the nearest Mopar dealer today. The Dodge cross reference number for a 2500/5.2l/35gal tk. is 4883029. The price is $799.70 CAD. Seriously! I live in a very remote town (50 miles of bush and oil wells in every direction), so an online purchase is my best choice. The $400 plus Mopar part seem likely. Maybe the Delphi pitch is misleading??? Sure like to hear from someone who knows that info. for sure.

[RamVanMan]

OK this might help. In this thread, from the Ram truck forums, in post # 3 a guy insists that the Delphi aftermarket pump IS the OEM pump. He got 207,000 miles on one, sounds like the deal. He says paid $ 364, I think the Delphi was only $ 265 at one site I checked recently. FYI....

http://www.dodgetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=196410

Best, David

[Only run'n on 1]

Thanks all. I have decided to try the Delphi E3000-149022. I just purchased it from prostreetonline for $254.91. It will likely take about 10 days to reach me. When I have the old one out, I think that I will cut an access hatch. (Learned that idea on this great site). I can get 3 of these pumps for the cost of one Mopar. Maybe I will take some comparison photos and post them here. If it gives me trouble I will let you know also. Thanks again for all the advice. I hope it is an unbadged Mopar......

[akakgak]

i just tried to look for the Delphi @ prostreetonline but couldn't even find that they sold that make, let alone that model.

also, at autopartswarehouse, there were 3 different items that matched '93 B250. all under $225. i'm pretty green at this, so i have to be overlooking something.

(can't post a url?)

i'm gearing up for a trip from L.A. to Indy and i have pretty whine-y fuel pump in the back. the thing runs strong and doesn't cut out, but i really don't want to be in the desert with my belongings in the back of a van with a dead fuel pump at the mercy of the nearest mechanic.

any links to pics of the fuel pump swamp in motion?

as always, thank you all for your patience.

J

[Only run'n on 1]

Hi akakgak. On the prostreetonline site, click on "OEM Replacement Parts" in the left column. Then enter the make and year of vehicle. Then choose the appropriate model and engine. It then gives you an index of parts for that specific vehicle. Click on "fuel delivery", and then again on "fuel pump". Your model may have a choice for a "returnless system". I don't know anything about pumps myself, but there are some guys on here, that will certainly be able to give you answers. There are Delphi aftermarket pumps on other sites, but they differ from these ones, that lay claim to being the actual unit that came in your van, when it was built. You need to pay attention to the numbers to note the difference, if you plan on looking at several online sellers. Once you have established a part number that claims to be OEM, simply enter that number and MFGR. in the Google toolbar. That should give you other sellers of that unit, as well as feedback or reviews from other sites or forums. Good luck.