Help me fix my Carter AFB without use of a sledgehammer

[ms244]

So, the effects of man made global warming provided some mid-Westerners (ie me) a nice summer day in the middle of the winter.

Went out to the truck. I got a rebuild kit for the carb online, new gaskets, accel. pump, and a couple of little bits and pieces. The main center gasket (no 18) on my carb was torn, so I replaced that.

Put everything back together, readjusted as per the manual. Damn thing won't run now. Its like its running out of gas when I give the throttle even a little and suddenly dies.

The other thing is that it idles very fast now, over 1000rpm I think.

How do I get this wretched contraption to run :help:

Couple of notes:

The little plungers that push the floats up and let the fuel in (No 21 in the picture). The original ones had springs and the plunger was a small hollow rod.
The new ones are a solid pointy thing.

The guide (also 21), I got one unscrewed and replaced with a new one but the other one is the original. They look identical to me .

The prior owner blocked the bowl vent valve outlet. I left it as such but I'm wondering if that should be the case?

I got rid of the emission control lines originating from the air filter.

The original manifold gasket is very thick to raise the carb so that its linkage will not interfere with the EGR valve. Its a little hard, I put some vacuum grease I had on the gasket to seal it. The new gasket will lower the carb, but I would like to get rid of the EGR valve (I'm pretty sure its dead). Any recommendations there?

Finally, how should this truck accelerate and handle compared to something relativly modern and fuel injected. When I drive it it always feels extremely sluggish and hesitates a bit on acceleration. I'm not expecting it to match my bimmers performance but I'm having a hard time visualizing taking this thing out on the highway.




http://www.carburetorfactory.com/images/expvw04.jpg

[Chump]

20/21/22 are the needle and seats...they let gas into the fuel bowl and are very critical to the operation of the carb. When you rebuild a carb you must replace all the parts that come in the kit.
Did you adjust the float height to spec?

[DiverDwnPowrRam]

Chump is right but the ones you replaced were the old ...save a gallon of gas...style needle and seats. That gasket you put the grease on should be replaced and even if you block off the egr you should continue to use this very same because of heat effects.

[ms244]

I adjusted the floats as per the directions, 3/8 and 15/16 clearance between the plate.

I'll try to get the other little seat out.

Where can I get the tall gasket (cheap preferably).

[Speed Dragon]

I adjusted the floats as per the directions, 3/8 and 15/16 clearance between the plate.

I'll try to get the other little seat out.

Where can I get the tall gasket (cheap preferably).Which tall gasket? If you mean the base gasket, you should be able to find one at a local parts store.

I always set my floats to be parallel w/ the machined face of the airhorn when held upside down. Maybe a redneck method but has always worked for me.

Definitely need to match the needles to their proper seats, just to be sure there's no problem there.

[ms244]

Which tall gasket? If you mean the base gasket, you should be able to find one at a local parts store.

I always set my floats to be parallel w/ the machined face of the airhorn when held upside down. Maybe a redneck method but has always worked for me.

Definitely need to match the needles to their proper seats, just to be sure there's no problem there.

What do you mean by parrallel to the airhorn? The sides of the floats are parrallel. The clearances are from the top of the float to the bottom of the carb plate (No 11).

[Macho4x4Warlock]

With the High Idle and dies on when giving it the gas pedal, sounds like a big vacuum leak. Take a spray can of WD40 and spray around the base of the carb. If the idle goes up that's your vacuum leak.

[B-300]

I'm sure Speed is refering to the the Air Horn, #11 for the parallel adjustment reference... If your floats have been tweeked this won't work at all, thats why you should write down the specs at disassembly time.
An EGR block-off plate can be made from plate steel or you could use a thin spacer that is made to adapt to different Edelbrock manifolds.... I vacumn leak would cause your idle speed to be higher than it was.

[Speed Dragon]

What do you mean by parrallel to the airhorn? The sides of the floats are parrallel. The clearances are from the top of the float to the bottom of the carb plate (No 11).Carb plate, airhorn, same thing. And turning it upside down simulates the fuel pushing the floats closed, then you measure/set the clearance. Easier than holding the floats up IMO, though I guess it's not hard to do either way. Anyway, setting them parallel to the carb plate usually works good, at the very least it's a good baseline to start from.

Oh and make sure you remember to hook up the PCV hose to the back of the carb, I've forgot it more than once when swapping out carbs. Makes for a nice big vacuum leak and hard starting.

[sgillett]

I wonder if the thin gasket is allowing the throttle to touch the EGR and is holding the throttle open a little. Or the fast idle is touching.
My $.02

[DiverDwnPowrRam]

all good replies but I think the reuse of the thick carb gasket using vacumn grease is the sure sign of why it idles high.

[ms244]

Well, I used what I had at hand :IDEA:

The vacuum grease won't evaporate but the gasket is awfully hard. I'll try to get a new one this week and try to find the vacuum leak.

This whole experience has led me to love my fuel injected and computer controlled bimmer even more. :WHT:

[67coronet]

Well if you put your Bimmer together improperly you would be posting on the Bimmer site asking for help before you hit the Bimmer with a sledgehammer. I have had less problems with my old carb cars over the years than any of my newer injected cars including my BMWs. In fact my old and new Dodges were always more reliable than my BMWs and I have had 3, a 740,525 and a 318 all sold thankfully.

[ms244]

True

I suppose the bimmer is much easier to upkeep since I'm much more familiar with it. Also, its a good 14 years newer, with all the attended advances in technology :WHT:

And it has heated seats :D

[DiverDwnPowrRam]

nice comment 67 I am with you on that one...by the way I am still looking for a rear window gasket for my factory sliding windows

[Speed Dragon]

BMW's are right below Ford and Honda on my Hate-to-work-on list :)

[bherder]

nice comment 67 I am with you on that one...by the way I am still looking for a rear window gasket for my factory sliding windows

+1 on that as well.. ;) At least with our Fred Flintstone rigs, we can fix most anything ourselves .... No need to take it to the dealer to hook up to some computer and then have them guess what's wrong.. For several hundred $$ :D

[ms244]

I got the tall gasket last night, but I don't think I'll get around to it until the weekend.
From memory, this one seems a little softer, without the hardened spots on the original.

I suppose I hit of a bit of a nerve with you guys. I'm in engineering, I like new advanced gizomo stuff. I even work in basic, fundimental scientific research.

I also like old analog mechanical things, looking at this contraption controlled by little levers, I'm amazed that it works as well as it does. And while it may not jump out at first, a lot of careful thought has been put into design.

Most of the problems on this truck can be traced to two things, it sitting for a number of years and not having enough time to devote to it.

The introduction of microprocessors in cars (everything really) is the second industrial revolution. Industry std is one mistake per 250,000 operations, and overall the chips are extremely reliable. Other then frying them, they rarely fail except for heat degradation. Solder connections coming loose is probably the biggest culprit behind board/component failure, especially with the new RoHS lead free solder.

In case of fuel injection, you can now have a fuel system that is non-linear and can be programed over a much wider range of variables so you don't have to tune it to your own specifications. In real terms thats more ponies under the hood and more miles to the gallon. And generally, it either works or doesn't, not too much in between.

There is a program for Audi-VW cars called Vag-Com, along with a cable its a little over $200 . Its a reverse engineered copy of the dealer package and runs off your laptop. You can actually see the output from the different sensors and 'talk' to the car, in real time as you drive even.

Unfortunately, there isn't one for other cars. I would imagine a version for the Big3 would sell well.

Dealer (well a good one) is good when you have to have the car fixed ASAP and can't get it done yourself (ex, -20 and 10 feet of snow outside and no garage). Otherwise most anything on even the newest cars can be generally trouble shot and fixed with common tools, but your approach will be quite different then on the old trucks. The fancy dealer computers just make the process quicker.

So in the end, please don't take it as a personal insult. I really appreciate the help I get here and everyone is welcome to drive what they want. :)

[1986w250]

as long as you're not docking the dodges, we'll be okay. just wanted to back you up alittle on vag-com. i work on these german engineered rejects for a living, and i'm pretty sure i couldn't get by without it. it's actually capable of more than our VW approved scan tools! anyway, back on the subject, good luck on finding your culprit! just a little tip though, not as to step on anyones feet, but be careful of using wd-40 to find a vacuum leak, as wd-40 residue left to sit in the cold will seize-up a little bit, which "could" cause another problem at cold start. a better alternative, in my opinion, is either brake cleaner, or starting fluid. just be VERY careful of where you spray and how much you spray. keep in mind these are extremely flammable products and when used incorrectly could leave you with some burned wiskers or worse.

[ms244]

I'm not dissing this Dodge per se, its more along the lines of, somedays I wish I had a truck that had 15 more years of automotive technology in it.

I'm not a big fan of WD40, regular K1 in a can would be much more preferable.
I suppose carb cleaner would work, but I'm a little hesitant to spray whats essentially MEK in a closed area with possibility of sparks.

I'll probably rerun the rest of the vacuum lines out of the carb with new rubber, I doubt it would worsen things, but then again.

On another side note, I've finally found the socket (5/16 IIRC) that fits the heater blower assembly. Its amazing how many 3/8 and 3/16 sockets I have but only one in the middle. Its completely filled with crap, leaves etc so that will probably be the next thing on the list.

[B-300]

Almost anything in a spray can uses isobutane as a propellent which is flammable.
Most carb cleaners are primarly acetone I thought... MEK is what plastic model glue is, and should only be used with adequete ventilation.

[DiverDwnPowrRam]

From the EPA page...if it helps
The primary use of methyl ethyl ketone is as a solvent in processes involving gums, resins, cellulose acetate, and cellulose nitrate.
Methyl ethyl ketone is also used in the synthetic rubber industry, in the production of paraffin wax, and in household products such as lacquer and varnishes, paint remover, and glues.

[bherder]

So in the end, please don't take it as a personal insult. I really appreciate the help I get here and everyone is welcome to drive what they want.

I don't think anyone here took any offense (I certainly didn't) ... we're just dinosaurs, passionate about our Flinstone-mobiles :D

[Speed Dragon]

Hehe, it's funny, most younger to early middle age guys like EFI and can't understand carbed vehicles, and most older guys don't understand EFI and stick w/ carbs. Personally I like both just as well, most carbed vehicles at least seem simpler, but EFI really isn't that complicated. As I tell people a lot, it's just a different method of doing the same thing. EFI is really just a expanded computer controlled carb. Just think of the injectors as variable jets, controlled by inputs from the MAP, coolant, IAT and various other sensors. The engine still works the same way, still burn air and fuel the same way.

Also, EFI Chryslers are among the easiest EFI vehicles in the world to diagnose and repair, due to the ability of anyone to check codes w/o needing a special scan tool. The fault codes are available all over the net and in most repair manuals (Haynes, Chiltons, etc).

Carbs are the easy simple way of doing it, but how many carbed turbo or supercharged cars are out there making 500+ hp and still getting 20+ mpg and maintaining drivability? Very few, whereas on the other hand, this is an easy feat for an EFI vehicle. Although granted, it is a bit more complicated wiring wise and requires knowledge of computer tuning or the money to have someone do it for you.

Don't get me wrong, I like fiddling w/ my old carbed stuff, but there is a limit to what you can do w/ a carb. Most people will never reach that limit however, as carbs can be tuned to work very well and still get good mileage in stock to mild apps.

[Speed Dragon]

I don't think anyone here took any offense (I certainly didn't) ... we're just dinosaurs, passionate about our Flinstone-mobiles :DI'm not a dinosaur :D