Fixin up my 1986 D150 1/2 ton 2WD (5.9L 4BL Holley) With your help! :) Come on in!

[Ag3ntm@n]

I picked up my first truck, as shown in my earlier thread showthread.php?p=2018930 (go there for a lot of pictures) wont let me put ina URL for some reason so you will have to figure it out.

I decided to create a new thread devoted to me restoring my truck since that one got a bit off topic.

To give you all some background, I am 22 yrs old and this is my first truck. I am attempting to restore it on my own with minimal experience. In the past I have done spark plugs, oil changes ect on my own but nothing major and have never worked with a carb. I am working alone on this project but have a oldtimer mechanic friend (actually a friend of a friend) who stops in now and then to look at it (hes been a mechanic for 35+ years and can spot any problems) so I get alittle help from him.

Anyway, id like this thread to be all about helping me and whoever else can benefit from it with problems I encounter.

Sorry if I ask *stupid* questions but how will I ever learn if I don't ask?
There is a lot to learn and I am starting from scratch pretty much (besides basic crap like oil changes, spark plugs ect).

I appreciate any help any experts give me on my problems and will promise to teach others once I learn about all of this.

Anyway, on to my first issue!
:gr_patrio

I have researched and found that I have a 5.9 4BL holley carb.
1850-4 is the model .

1984-1988 8Cyl 5.9L GAS, CARB, VIN "W", 4 BBL D150, 2WD, 1/2 Ton

I had my friends mechanic friend come look at it and within 2 minutes he told me what I had to do first. He showed that the carb was missing some important clips holding parts onto it :IDEA: ... and that the throttle return spring was old and warn (about to break) thus the high idleing. None of this was noticed by me since I am such a newbie at it of course. I instantly learned a lot just from those few mins around him.

Went to autozone picked up a new spring, and some clips and got those replaced. It seemed to help the idle speed down a bit, but now I need to figure out how to adjust this beast so the idle is normal.
(as shown in pic 1 and 2)

Before I adjust the screws, I checked out the left side of the carb to see if its missing anything. It appears to be missing SOMETHING from the left side, as shown in pic 3,4,5. It appears a small rod is supose to go in one of the parts tightened by a screw. Is this important?

Can someone show a pic or help me figure out what needs to be done?
Id like to fix it if it needs fixing before I play with the idle adjust screws.

The last 3 pics show what I am talking about, there are two *pieces* which just dont seem right, one spins around and is attached to nothing (shown in the back) and the other opens and closes the carb plate when I move it, and is missing a rod that goes thru that hole i am guessing).

Dan :help:

[Ag3ntm@n]

Just to save time I will go ahead and post my next issue which is adjusting the idle screws so it idles good. (I need to figure out which screw does what).

I have come to the conclusion that there are 2 adjustable screws and 1 turnable nob on the Right of the carb, as shown with letters A B and C.

The left side of the carb I found 2 more adjustable screws, as shown with D and E.

I will be picking up a tach to see the rpms when I get a chance but am not to sure what each screw does so I will post the pics and hope someone can tell me. I am aware there are fuel mixture screws and idle screws but not sure which is which. I will post pictures with letters pointing to the various screws I find, hopefully someone can post what each screw adjusts based on the letters.

If anyone can tell me which screw does what I should be able to adjust it myself (based on the hanes manual) .. but if you have advice feel free to share!

Also if anyone notices any problems that carb may have, or parts that need fixing or that are missing, based on all these pics I am posting, please let me know!

:IDEA:
Thanks,Dan

[yogibare143]

First set of pictures shows where to hook up manual choke.

[84 Ram]

A. adjusts your accelerator pump
B. Air adjustment
C. This is what you need to adjust your idle
D. I am not sure on this one
E. Another air adjustment
I am no carberator expert but if everything is good excpt your idle than I would only adjust what you have labeled C. When you do adjust this do it alittle at a time and throttle it between turns to bring the idle up or down.

[Ag3ntm@n]

First set of pictures shows where to hook up manual choke.

Hey, are you referring to the pictures with my hand in it pointing to the 2 unknown things? (on L side of the carb)

If so ,can you go into more detail? Is that something that is optional?

What I basically want to know is, in its current shape does it need to be fixed at all or does it look normal? Not sure what a manual choke is or if its needed.

Thanks
Dan

[Ag3ntm@n]

A. adjusts your accelerator pump
B. Air adjustment
C. This is what you need to adjust your idle
D. I am not sure on this one
E. Another air adjustment
I am no carberator expert but if everything is good excpt your idle than I would only adjust what you have labeled C. When you do adjust this do it alittle at a time and throttle it between turns to bring the idle up or down.

Seems my neighbor messed with 1 of the air adjustments, so probably have to re-do it all anyway.

I am guessing I have to set the idle(C), then adjust the air mixes (B and E) and I am good to go?

Dan

[yogibare143]

You can run manual choke line to left side of Holly Carb. If you do not run choke cable push arm forward so choke is wide open. Your picture shows choke mostly closed which could affect idle.

[84 Ram]

If your truck starts ok all of the time then I wouldn't worry about the choke. If it is hard to start and idles rough for a while until it is warm then you will need to hook it up.

[DiverDwnPowrRam]

Well first you need to clean the carb you have had obvious backfires...this model may not have the special "power valve save" so you will need to look into that. As the others have said "A" and "D" are usually set at the factory and need no usual adjustments. "B" and "E" MUST be the same number of turns about 1.75 -2.25 turns out from light seating. "C" sets your curb idle.

[Ag3ntm@n]

Well first you need to clean the carb you have had obvious backfires...this model may not have the special "power valve save" so you will need to look into that. As the others have said "A" and "D" are usually set at the factory and need no usual adjustments. "B" and "E" MUST be the same number of turns about 1.75 -2.25 turns out from light seating. "C" sets your curb idle.

Will any kind of damage occur if B and E are NOT set the same? my dang neighbor thinks he knows everything and adjusted ONE SIDE to a different setting, and started up the truck a few times thinking it was better.

:mad:

He also messed with the "A" one.

So what should I set A at? D was never touched by anyone.

as for B and E, "out from light seating" whats this mean? thanks

Dan

[yogibare143]

You can run manual choke line to left side of Holly Carb. If you do not run choke cable push arm forward so choke is wide open. Your picture shows choke mostly closed which could affect idle.

[bherder]

Welcome to the world of broken/bloody knuckles - Cussing - Throwing wrenches :D :D :D

[KB7EWA]

Hey, are you referring to the pictures with my hand in it pointing to the 2 unknown things? (on L side of the carb)

If so ,can you go into more detail? Is that something that is optional?

What I basically want to know is, in its current shape does it need to be fixed at all or does it look normal? Not sure what a manual choke is or if its needed.

Thanks
Dan
Okay, here goes. The two things on the left with you hand in the picture. The thing closest to the front is where the choke cable goes. The wire goes through the hole and the screw tightens down to hold it in place. The thing closest to the back is a bracket to hold the sheath of the choke cable in place so it doesn't move. This is how you can get a wire inside a sheath to push/pull. On the other ones. For starters don't mess with A - until you have a good idle set. This is the accelerator "pump shot" that squirts extra gas into the carb when you step on the gas to compensate for the immediate increase in air when you open up the throttle. It also gives that initial kick when you step on it. This is adjusted last. B,E and C are adjusted together. B and E are your idle mixture screws. With the engine running slowly turn one clockwise until the engine starts to run rough, then back it back out slightly. Then repeat on the other side. This effective ballances the left and right side on the carb at idle. Once this is done then you can set C to acheive the idle speed you should have. 1000-1150 for a standard or 800-1000 for an automatic (this is to take the pressure off the torque converter in and auto.) Once this are done you can adjust A. Do this only if the truck hesitates when you step on it. This is done by "winging" the throttle (moving it by hand) to see if the engine hesitates and then turn down the nut on top of the pump arm in quarter turn increments, checking the hesitation between each turn, until it picks up like it should. You will also notice two big screw with lock nuts under them, one on top of each float bowl (the rectangle shaped blocks) one in front of and one behind the big opening the air goes through. Let me know when you find them and then we'll go into what those are for. Good luck!

[KB7EWA]

Here, this will help. It is for the electric choke model but most of the info is the same. BTW, "D" in you photo is the fast idle adjustment.

[sgillett]

One more thing about Holley carbs, they have externally adjustable float level.
In the picture that shows D and E, there is a large plug with a straight blade slot in it, that is the float level checking port, you adjust the float level so it is at the bottom of the threads when the plug is out. There is one on each float bowl. To adjust the float level, on the top of the float bowl at the end, there is another big straight blade slot and a hex below it, this is the needle and seat adjustment. Carefully loosen the top slotted screw a little bit and turn the hex to change the float level. Be careful the gas may flow out of the sight plug when you remove it, and gas will come out of the needle and seat when you loosen the top screw. You can do the adjustment with the motor running if you are really careful or start it, turn it off and than make the adjustment check it and readjust, takes a lot of time. You need to do this on both floats. The float adjustment should be done before all others because it affects everything else. I believe the 1850 is a 600 CFM carb, it should run well on a 360 enjoy!
Scott

[Ag3ntm@n]

Wow great info thanks all. I managed to adjust the air fuel mixes and idle by myself and impressed my friends mechanic friend :D thanks to you all.... all my questions seem to have been answered. sweet!

I may attempt to rebuild the carb and clean it just because the guy I bought it from said it sucked up a bunch of crap .
Is that a tough thing to do? Not sure if I should spend time rebuilding it or not.

Anyway, back to other restoration issues!

Sofar here is the progress:
Throttle return spring replaced.
New clips on throttle linkages.
Carb air/fuel + idle speeds adjusted.

Things I have noticed that need fixing that I may or may not need help with:
1)Fuse box falls out from under the dash sometimes (noticed a couple wires are cut and loose too!!)
2) Tranny problems - bang when shifting sometimes- Tranny fluid low / leaking below mid-cabin area (from the pan I believe).
3) Low oil .
4) Annoying exhaust leak below mid-cabin.
5) SMOG SYSTEM IS DISABLED! (Live in AZ :mad: ). Most of the exhaust is exiting a broken SMOG system hose within the engine bay shooting it directly at the battery from above the smog pump. Seems someone disconnected it all! (as seen in FIG 1 and FIG2) Not even sure if exhaust should be blowing in that tube so strong or at all! Pump is locked up (might of frooze at some point). Other smog components are missing pieces/hoses or just not set it it seems.
6)Body needs paint job and has small dent in front quarter panel- missing a side light/ram statue on front. Rust on hood/roof.
7)A/C control unit in cabin does not turn off nor respond to pressing any of the buttons on it, besides the fan speed control if you pull it out and move up or down. Always seems to be blowing out, have it set on low currently since I cant turn it off.
8)Strange noises heard from engine bay when reversing out of a parking lot at low speed, clunk clunk clunk real fast until I hit the break petal it instantly dissapeared. WONT BE ADDRESSED UNLESS IT HAPPENS TO ME AGAIN.
9)Electric windows do not work.
10) Need to strape the crappy tint off the rear/side windows.
11) Front windshield has cracks in it.

Will add more if I think of it.

Heres what I plan on doing for each problem:

1)Figure out what the broken fuses are for..fix repair as needed. maybe the AC control system??
Secure fuse box somewhere under dash.

2)Tranny tuneup, new gasket ect. Hopefully tranny tuneup will fix the shifting problems and the leak from the pan since bringing the idle down from about 3K to 800 has already almost helped 100% LOL!

3) Oil change.......

4) Going to try *muffler and exhaust repair kit* I bought at autozone. Anyone have experience with this?? Its pretty much a reinforced metal screen and a tube of putty type stuff you put over the hole... gets hard after a few hours aparently.

5) Will deff need help with setting this up as I have no idea what goes where and connects to what with the smog system on this truck. Anyone have any diagrams or info which would help? Maybe I can pick up a old pump/smog components off one of the local trucks at the parts yard.

6) Going to look for the statue at the parts yard, maybe bang out the quarter panel (its not bad) and give it a paint job after sealing the rust.

7) No idea how to fix the AC control unit or get it to stop blowing(turn it off) Might be those cut wires at the fuse box- but why would someone do that to their AC system? Any ideas how to fix this one? Diagram or something would be nice.

8)wont be a prob unless it happens again only noticed it once.

9) Prob going to get inside the door on both sides somehow, replace the motor, check the connections ... repair as needed. Would come in handy ordering fast food without having to open the door!

10) Easy fix... razor blade.
11)Ganna replace the front windshield....

If you want to give advice on anything I appreciate it !
I am a home-made mechanic in training. :gr_patrio

Thanks for reading.
Dan

[KB7EWA]

Here is another pdf file from holley that explaines setting the float level.
Now then, the thing you are showing there in the exhaust system is the diverter valve for the smog pump. You should NOT be getting exhaust going through the rubber hose, it will melt in a heartbeat. What this does is once the engine gets up to operating temperature there is a relay, solenoid or other valve that opens a vacuum circuit to the diverter valve and that in return lets the smog pump, which should be on the driver's side above the power steering pump, push air into the exhaust stream to combust unburnt fuel in the exhaust system. It looks to me like it is burned up. If you are getting exhaust and heat coming up here you may have a clogged catalytic combustor or muffler that is backing the exhaust upstream. Check those out.

[Ag3ntm@n]

Here is another pdf file from holley that explaines setting the float level.
Now then, the thing you are showing there in the exhaust system is the diverter valve for the smog pump. You should NOT be getting exhaust going through the rubber hose, it will melt in a heartbeat. What this does is once the engine gets up to operating temperature there is a relay, solenoid or other valve that opens a vacuum circuit to the diverter valve and that in return lets the smog pump, which should be on the driver's side above the power steering pump, push air into the exhaust stream to combust unburnt fuel in the exhaust system. It looks to me like it is burned up. If you are getting exhaust and heat coming up here you may have a clogged catalytic combustor or muffler that is backing the exhaust upstream. Check those out.

Thanks man I love pdfs, very helpful since I am a visual person! How important is adjusting the floats? The mechianic friend of my friend told me today I should'nt mess with it and its prob set ok.

The rubber hoses HAVE been melting when I put them on there, along with smoking! I did'nt think that much exhaust should be shooting thru those little hoses.

I will attempt to find the reason the exhaust is comming up the wrong tube but have no idea how to . Going to research about doing "clogged catalytic combustor or muffler backing up " checks. What would happen if I plugged the tube on the left of the engine where the exhaust is comming in? Any tips on easiest way to check if theres a plugged up muffler (exhaust DOES come out the back muffler a lot too) or catalytic converter - which im guessing what you meant by combustor.

Thanks! :cool:

[77Utiline]

You gotta love emission parts. :YUK: If you don't have emission testing toss it (just my personal opinion). Also Holley's tend to run one of two ways: wide open or not at all. If you can get your carb. adjusted more power to you. Also ditch the manual choke setup they tend to be more of a hassle then they're worth. You can get an electronic choke conversion from Carquest for like 60 bucks, I know it sounds steep but you'll save the money in gas very quickly (I did :D).

[Speed Dragon]

Yeah I'm not big on Holleys either, I prefer Carters.

[Ag3ntm@n]

Having troubles this morning starting it up in the cold. My engine bay is a huge gassy mess right now . Dang carbs :mad: Is it normal for the carb to spew out gas while its running??? When started up cold of course...

Dan

[Speed Dragon]

Nope it's not lol. Sounds like the floats are stuck or set too high.

[Ag3ntm@n]

Prob going to rebuild the 1850-4 I have since it seems to have so many issues.

Never done it before, what kit to I need to buy? Its a holley.

Is it hard? Should I even attempt or have someone do it who knows what they are doing? What do I use to clean it?

Thanks

Dan

[84 Ram]

If I were you I would probably have someone to do it or to supervise you while you are doing it, thats if you know anyone that has any experience rebuilding carbs. Its not a hard job I do all of my own carb rebuilding its just alot of items that have to go back just as they came out .

[KB7EWA]

I love Carter 2 barrels like th BBD but I have had nothing but trouble with the AFB I used to have on my truck. Hence the TBI conversion. My plymouth has a Holley 4160 and I love it. Since they added the check valve to protect the power valve they have really improved. Anyway back to the subject. It is very important that the float level is correct. If it is too low then you will out run the bowl under heavy loading ie going uphill on the freeway. If it is too high then you will see extra fuel dripping from the venturi tubes into the carb from overflow resulting in wasted fuel, poor performance, and lots of fowled sparkplugs.

[Speed Dragon]

Building a carb isn't too hard, but you need a dedicated table for it, so you don't loose little parts, and you have to take your time. Just take the # off the carb to the store and they should be able to order the proper kit.

[Ag3ntm@n]

Hello all thanks for responding, last night I took the truck to autozone and on the way it started backfiring really bad under load... I had been messing with the airfuel mixes (the day earlier it ran perfect ) but for some reason after that hard startup this morning and gas spewing all over its backfiring horribly. Could it be that one of the spark plugs may have been fouled by all the gas spewing about?

Any ideas?

It worked fine the other day under load, now it has a strange hissing noise when it runs and has hardly any power + the backfires.

Dan

[Speed Dragon]

Sounds like a vacuum leak, you leave a hose loose somewhere?

[77Utiline]

Get a can of carb cleaner and spray it on the vac. hoses while it is idling. When the idle RPM's flare you found the vac. leak.

[Ag3ntm@n]

Seems the carb has 2 vacuum points, one goes to a nipple on the distrib (where spark plugs plug into) - this was connected with a crappy fish-tank quality tube which I believe is the cause of a leak. Just to see I plugged it off , along with the other point, and tried adjusting the idle screws to nothing- engine died! Before it would run even if I closed the air/fuel mixes all the way. I will have to get a new better tube to hook to that nipple and see if it solves that problem...

I know the vacuum that hooks to the distrib is important to have, but what about the 2nd one? It attaches to a 3 nipple thing that seems to connect to the SMOG system somehow. Ok just to keep this one plugged?

Also after more examination it seems it needs new plug wires for sure... new rotor/cap ... possibly spark plugs too...... along with exhaust manifold gaskets (they look all fked up) and not sure what else.

Anyone have any idea how I can check why the exhaust is comming up thru a metal tube on the left engine bay thru a hose to the mechanism ontop of the smog pump? I heard exhaust shouldnt be going there... and cat may be clogged or something... either that or the exhaust... how do I check this????

Thanks
Dan

:gr_patrio

[Ag3ntm@n]

Oh I would also like to know, is replacing the exhaust manifold /gaskets a easy job? Seems all I need to do is de-bolt them - replace gasket- re-bolt.

Am I missing something??

Dan :D

[acton mike]

do not mess around with patches and patching stuff for exhaust

by the time you finish messing around with it you will wish you had put the $ towards new exhaust parts

[Speed Dragon]

Yes replacing the exh manifold gaskets is easy.

The engine will shutoff if you turn the idle mix screws all the way in, this is normal. Usually a setting of about 2-3 turns out from fully seated is a good base setting, but each engine can be slightly different. You set your curb idle speed and initial timing, then adjust the idle mix until you get the smoothest idle. Then reset the curb idle if necessary and you're good to go.

As for the tube, that's factory. Before the plastic piece on top of the air pump melted, the pump pumped air into the exhaust through that tube. Part of the emissions system. Personally I'd rip it all off there if you don't have inspections out there.

[77Utiline]

I'd rip it all off there if you don't have inspections out there.

I completely agree.

I know the vacuum that hooks to the distrib is important to have, but what about the 2nd one? It attaches to a 3 nipple thing that seems to connect to the SMOG system somehow. Ok just to keep this one plugged?

Vacuum line to the distributor is your vacuum advance (timing advance) the second more than likely is related to the emissions and can be blocked off.

[rolnblok]

If you are going to rebuild it yourself (the carb), which I would recommend you do simply to understand how the carb works and get that intimate familiarity with it. (worst case is you will have about 20-25 bucks into it and if it is no beter or does not work, you can pay someone to fix it later and you will have a rebuilt carb and you will have learned something).

In my experience, carb rebuild kits usually have nothing more than a photocopy of a photocopy of the instructions from a service manual. Needless to say they are often lacking in picture clarity and detail. This can be intimidating if you read through it and have never been into a carb before. As you learn what the various parts are called, it makes much more sense. If you think you may rebuild that Holley, go to a good book store or online bookstore of your choice and order a Holley book (maybe 20-30 bucks, but a book should last a lifetime). There are several. Some cover both 2 and 4 bbl Holleys and some are specific for the 4150 and 4160 series.

For what it is worth, a digital camera can be a useful asset when rebuilding a carb (or anything else you are going to take apart). Take a picture of the linkages, spring placement, vacuum hose routing, etc. BEFORE you disassemble. Then you have a good reference for getting it all back together.