Rear door hinge pin

[landyacht318]

The hinge pin on my 89 b250 rear door on the bottom is broken. I know the best thing to do would be to visit a J/Y and replace the whole hinge. Knowing I could be opening a can of worms with this, I decided to try to loosen the bolts on the body and door side. The Pb blasted bolts didn't care to budge and I was not in the mood to force / strip and bend the door/ body pillar.

I want to just somehow manage to extract the old hingepin and replace it with a stainless clevis pin or similar.

From what I can see the bottom of the current broken pin is tapered. Is it also threaded or have any other method of keeping it in place other than years of corrosion?

Anybody have experience with these hinges/hingepins and some advice? The way murphy's law has been treating me lately I can just imagine the possibility of another embarassing severe temper tantrum :VHOT: that has the neighbors calling the cops. :crazy:

[alloro]

It will take a good punch and a heavy hammer to drive that pin out. A press is out of the question since you can't get the hinge assembly off. One mis-swing and you're going to smash your hand or the body of the van, then of course the cops will show up. :)

Know anyone with air tools or a breaker bar that you can use on those bolts? If you chose to disclose your approximate location, maybe someone on this board with the tools can help out.

[landyacht318]

I have not really tried to hard yet to get the bolts off. I put about 3/4 of my body weight (220#) on the rachet and said the heck with it. I got a so many other things on my list. I knew 2 years ago this pin was busted, and just tied the hinge together with some rope and hammered a wooden wedge in between the rope and hinge, and it worked pretty well.

Part of the reason I'm looking to just replace the hinge pin is that I have not found any junk yards within 50 miles. (Sarasota, Florida) and I got a quote from some used auto parts place for 65+ dollars + 15 dollars shipping. I can get a nice 304 stainless clevis pin for 7 $ at the local ACE hware.

I was thinking I could grind off the top rounded part of the pin and Either hammer out the broken pieces from the top, or use a gear puller to push the pin out. If the pin has to come out from the bottom then It complicates things, and I'll just look for another piece of rope and an oak wedge
and call it macaroni.

[alloro]

I don't believe it's a tapered pin, if it was there would be no need to have a head on it. If you were to grind the head off, you could probably hammer it downward.

[van-nut]

I've never messed with one, but I believe the pins are just a press fit into the hinges. How much of a press I'm not sure. I believe that somewhere once I saw a tool made specifically for door hinge pins. Maybe if you have a large enough "C" clamp you might be able to rig up a make shift press. A hammer and punch might work, but don't go too crazy with the hammer.

Pete

[landyacht318]

Thanks for the replies.

I'm gonna grind the head off and take a whack at it, or a gear puller/ c clamp type of pusher, or a cobalt drill bit. Failing that, another rope with an oak wedge.

[stev]

Do you know what is WORSE than getting those door hinge pins out?

Well ...


Having to remove any of the tail lamp lenses and the head to the screw breaks off! Talk about it being a real pain! Even more so since the bulb needs to be changed to pass vehicle inspection!


So, I do feel for you changing out that pin.

I'm surprised that Nate and the other guys havn't chimmed in yet. They have removed doors and a few put in gull-wing side doors on too. They have to know the tricks to get that pin out without damaging anything.

[landyacht318]

I managed to find a photo of some 70-77 plymouth cargo door hinge pins. I would like to know if anyone knows if the hinges are the same up through the '89 model year.
Here's the link:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/70-77-PLYMOUTH-VAN-S-R-CARGO-DOOR-HINGE-PIN-REPAIR-KIT_W0QQitemZ200031324084QQcmdZViewItem

[landyacht318]

Found the answer to my own question.

Chrysler 2-3/4" x 17/64"(.266") x 9/16" (.56")
- Dodge, Plymouth Vans
- 1970-up Cargo doors, side or rear

The above photo makes it look like the head of the broken pin would rather be pushed up from the bottom. I also noted that my 3rd and most used door has fallen badly out of alignment over the last few months and could probably use new pins and bushings.

I'm gonna make my own removal tool with a large c clamp, a large enough socket and a # 12 or 1/4 inch machine bolt. Bet I still turn the neighborhood black with curses. :VHOT: :crazy:

[van-nut]

It looks like if you can push the pin upwards enough to get the splined section out you'll be home free at that point.

Pete

[Dodgevanman]

If you could only get the old hinge off, it would save a lot of headaches. Those pins get so rusted in that you'll never get them out. My father-in-laws 85 Dodge has both pins broken on one of the rear doors. I went to my local pick-n-pull and got both hinges for 10 bucks. It tooks us a total of 15 minutes to change both hinges. Of course we already had the interior panel removed so we could get to the bolt heads.

[landyacht318]

Nate,

I'm sure your right about the difficulty in removing the hinge pins, but I can't find any junkyards within 50 miles, and those that I've called that are farther away have quoted $20+ per hinge, and that was for a chevy van. They were trying to tell me they were identical.

I put some torque on all my hinges today and found significant slop in all but one. Suprisingly, I can find very little rust around any of them (at least on the exterior. I'm going with the replacement hinge pins, and I'm gonna soak em all in pb blaster every day for a week, and make the proper tool.

[stev]

As for the door being badly out of alignment, I've used a floor jack and a few 2x4's to gently and slowly push them up until the doors sprung bad into the proper alignment. Most of the time you'll need to overtravel the jack so as the door will spring into alignment. Doing it in increments works the best.

[landyacht318]

The doors are sagging just because of the hinge pin/ bushing slop. My 3rd door top hinge has about 7 mm of play back and forth. I bet that pin is about ready to shear
You have given me an Idea. I might rig up some sort of system using a small bottle jack to push the hinge pins up and out through the top. The one C clamp I have will be inadequate. I do have access to a giant gear puller which should work on the top hinges

[landyacht318]

Here is the tool I was envisioning. Others envisioned it first.

I need a bigger C clamp.

[stev]

Wow, we have a great artist here! I could never drawing something up that good in Paint!

:)

[landyacht318]

I didn't create that illustration, I copied it from some site when searching for hinge pin removal tools.

I tried my HD gear puller tool on my third door hinges today, The nipple on the drive pusher basically dug into the hinge pin without budging it.

There is no way the illustrated tool could put out more force than the gear puller.

Maybee with a weeks worth of penetrant and some heat it would move.

I think I'm gonna make another effort to find a local junkyard and replace the whole damn hinge. I was able to bust the bolts loose on the broken one. The only real bad door is the third, and it might just stay that way.

[Dodgevanman]

Tell you what...how many hinges do you need?

I can go down to my local pick n pull and pull some hinges and send them to you. I can't guarantee color match, but I can get you some good hinges.

[landyacht318]

Nate,

Incredibly kind offer! I just might take you up on it. However, I've already ordered the hinge pin kit(for 4 hinges) for $15.50 delivered, and really want to try to get the old pins out first.

The broken hinge I was able to remove from van and door but am still unable to budge the pin in 2 of the 3 holes. I tried the gear puller, propane torch, and a BFH. I'm thinking machine shop or a 17/64 colbalt drill bit on my old man's drill press. So far I've even managed to keep my temper in check. I guess whalin on something with a BFH is a pretty good outlet even when accomplishes nothing. :crazy:

What would a machine shop do If I showed up with the hinge? Hydraulic press? Drill? How much you think they'd charge?

[alloro]

A shop will press them out, you cannot drill them since the pins are hardened steel. I suspect you'd be looking at $5 per hinge, which is pretty fair.

[landyacht318]

Hardened steel?

I would agree that yes, it shoud be hardened steel, but I don't think mine are a very hard steel. The nipple on the push rod of my gear puller made these holes. The diamond shaped hole is from my Harbor Freight 59 cent tent stake that I was using as a punch in the gear puller hole. I ground the surfaces flat with a cheap cut off wheel. Grinding the domed cap off of the hinge pin took about 5 seconds with my cheap H.F. grinder.

When the new pins arrive, I'm taking the hinges off the third door as well and going to the machine shop. The hinges on the other cargo doors are good enough.


Thanks again Nate, for the offer. Thanks everybody for the input.

[alloro]

You do know that you have to remove the pins out the top of the hinge...right? Although the pins are not tapered, in looking at the picture of the new pins you ordered, there are splines around the top which will prevent the pin from getting pushed down even without the domed cap.

[landyacht318]

Yes I'm aware of the splines and the unidirectional exit. The photo shows the bottom part of the hinge. I was on another website looking at the pins and in the diagram, they had splines running the whole length of the pin.

When I was using a propane torch on th hinge I actually saw equidistant little beads of what looked like solder emerge from the pin edges, but then it boiled away. I think it was the penetrant or maybee paint.

Anyway it's beyond my tools and they're tagged for a machine shop. I'll also let the shop know where the splines are located in the hinge(s).

[dodges 3]

Funny thing. I've tried to punch pins out before, on my rear door, with no luck. I recently removed my reear door, and replaces it with a f/g gullwing door. I was not able to get to the lower holes to remove the hinge, so I cut the hinge, close to the body as possible, with a sawzall. When the remaining hinge part fell to the ground, after cutting it, the pin popped right out. I'm noy sure if it was the virbration from the saw, or the heat generated, but thats what happened. Now I have to tear out a section of my intereior, so I can get to the lower holes, and get remainder of hinge off.

You can see in this pic. the amount of hinge I cut off the lower hinge.

Good luck with yours...

[landyacht318]

I just returned from the machine shop. They said they couldn't press out the broken pin sections, and had to drill it out.
One hinge, 30 $. and the 15 bucks for the pins and bushings for 4 pins.

Don't think I'm gonna worry about the sloppy 3rd door hinges. It hurts to sit.

[dodges 3]

Did you ever try using a air hammer, with a pointed tip on it. After re-reading everything in this thread, and considering how mine fell apart, after cutting it in 2, I wonder if the constant pounding from an air hammer would do it. I am going to be removing mine on my parts van, which is now a trailer, so I will try this method, along with lots of penetrating oil, and some heat. I'll post my results after doing it.

Good to hear that you got it done finally though.

[landyacht318]

I don't have any access to air tools, and am not familiar with an air hammer. Wouldn't it be difficult to keep the business end of the hammer on the tip of the hinge pin?

Frankly, I'm surprised they couldn't press out the broken pin thirds. Before I brought the hinge in to them it was submerged in wd40 for about 2 weeks.

I told the dude about my other two sloppy hinges, he wanted no part of them.

Told me it took an hour to do the one hinge and he charged me for a half.

[Mad Joe]

I've been following this thread. I'm glad out of all my Dodge vans I've never faced this problem. I do have a question for you though.

Would it not have been easier and maybe cheaper to find used hinges and just replace the whole unit? Just curious.

[landyacht318]

Replacement hinges from a junkyard would have been the way to go. I couldn't find any junkyards with in 50 miles. Those farther away claimed I could use chevy hinges or they didn't have any dodge ones.

After I ordered the hinge pins Nate offerred to get some and mail them to me, and I wish I had done that.

But I am a fool who constantly shoots himself in the foot. :crazy:

At least I'm 99% done with the bed and cabinet. Today I'm re insulating and painting my dog house, then soon I design and build the solar panel tilting mounts.

[Dodgevanman]

If you still need hinges, let me know. I won't be able to get them this weekend, because I'll be in Chicago for a week.

[chigato]

Howdy, I need about 12 pairs of pins. Where did you find the hinge pin kit ? Thanks.

[landyacht318]

Found the kit on Ebay but that was 18 months ago. It was only for the back doors not the front ones.

Despite having enough pins and bushings for 1.5 more doors, I've replaced 2 more hinges since the beginning of this thread, with Junk yard hinges. Unless you've got access to a hydraulic press and a drill press and know how to sharpen drill bits, your probably setting yourself up for multiple headaches.

[alloro]

Unless you've got access to a hydraulic press and a drill press and know how to sharpen drill bits, your probably setting yourself up for multiple headaches.

Got it.
Got it.
Got the sharpener and the knowhow.

I'm so friggin' spoiled. :5191Moon-thumb:

[landyacht318]

You need a special sharpener for drill bits?
I use my angle grinder and a butt load of hand eye coordination.
Pig tails every time, almost. If it hasn't walked away from center.:)

[alloro]

You need a special sharpener for drill bits?


Ever hear, "use the right tool for the right job"?

[landyacht318]

If I have the right tool,
I use it,
but if I don't,
I improvise.

I've used a friends drill doctor before and had better results with my angle grinder and a cut off wheel when drilling out a hole that's already been started.

And if I can manage to sharpen a 1/8 inch drill bit by hand, I can certainly figure out how to properly use a drill doctor.

I bid you Good Day.

[lilredex]

Just a note about those hinge pins that are outside the vehicle. It pays to drill a hole so the pin can be lubricated properly. Open the door and center punch midway on the hinge section (on the door). Drill through to the pin with an 1/8" bit then just touch it again with a 3/16" bit to create a slight well. Now you can put a pump style oil can in that well and force oil into the hinge section that rotates. Do it regularly and you'll never have a problem again. Think if you check the hinges of the last years of those "B" vans, Chrysler finally did that. Bell Tel locally, installed grease fittings there, when they had Dodges.

Don't think the biggest BFH will drive out those pins once they twist off, at least that's my experience. No amount of penetrating oil works either. The only solution is an oxy/acetylene torch to heat it red hot, then it can be driven out.

[landyacht318]

The hinges which I assume are the stock ones which came on my '89 do have the holes where they can be lubricated. The hinges which I took off a '97 did/do not.
A grease fitting would be nice.