I have my 2003 Dodge Caravan at a dealership getting carbon cleaned from some throttle thing, I still can't understand what this guy was saying. He then said I needed to have the computer flash updated, his sounds like something that's not needed...
Oh and by the way, do these service guys, not the mechanics, get a percentage of my bill?
Seems sneaky to me....
but what should i know, i'm just a police detective...
Jerry
Rick99
08-31-2007, 04:42 PM
It's not so unreasonable. "Flashing the computer" refers to updating the software in the engine/transmission computer. Chrysler releases periodic updates to correct various issues that they find after the vehicle goes into production.
You don't always "need" a flash update. For my Durango, there's a flash update that gives it a "clear flood" feature. For some minivans, there's a flash update that fixes a problem with the automatic doors. If they want you to pay for it and they're recommending it, ask to see the TSB (Technical Service Bulletin released by Chrysler) for the flash and decide if you agree that you're having the symptoms described.
As for the pay-- I don't know. I'm not in the business, but it wouldn't surprise me if the dealership sees the service reps as salespeople.
donald7150
08-31-2007, 04:42 PM
A flash update is simply a software update for the PCM (powertrain control module) or TCM (Transmission Control module)
This procedure only takes about 30 mins as far as i know
software updates generally only fix small driveability issues or vehicle performance issues that you may or may not have noticed
if your caravan seems to be running fine i guess you could tell them to forget the update. or ask them what the update is for. if the dealer seems to beat around the bush and not tell you exactly what the update is for then tell him to forget the update
Also the dealership i used to work at didnt give mechanics any upsale percentage for extra work. im not sure if they are all the same
Rick99
08-31-2007, 04:49 PM
Check out pg 52 of the document in the following link. This will tell you the latest flash update "part number" and the related TSB number for your vehicle. "RS" is the code for your van's body-- then just choose the row with the correct engine. You'd have to subscribe to alldatadiy.com to get the actual TSB, but the dealer should be willing to print it up for you.
TSB-Flash Update Info (https://techauthority.gltghosting.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/FlashAvail?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10051)
walrusispaul
10-04-2007, 09:44 AM
Service advisors do get a percentage of the bill, but most 5-star dealers won't rip you off by selling you crap you don't need. The updates should be kept up to keep your vehicle in top shape.
Rick99
10-05-2007, 11:52 AM
Service advisors do get a percentage of the bill, but most 5-star dealers won't rip you off by selling you crap you don't need. The updates should be kept up to keep your vehicle in top shape.
Right, they'll just rip you off by charging too much for the work and doing a crappy job while their techs try to beat book time so they can earn a living.
(Sorry, I've just had bad experiences with 3 out of 3 5-star dealers I've dealt with and one non-5 star dealer.)
shelbydodgeimp
10-15-2007, 07:48 AM
Basically what he's saying about the throttle & carbon is that the throttle body (valve that controls air intake into the engine) with time builds up a collection of junk.
This effects all kinds of things that not everyone notices right away, in part because its a gradual process- such as a rough idle etc since you've basically got dirt screwing with the flow of air into the engine, it can subject the intake to turbulence and other things not to mention that you can notice a difference in acceleration with just a few mm of build up.
walrusispaul
10-15-2007, 10:40 AM
Darn techs and their hungry children!
Rick99
10-15-2007, 01:55 PM
Darn techs and their hungry children!
No, I'm pretty sure the problem is management that doesn't just pay a decent amount by the hour actually worked. They've created incentives for poor customer service. I used to be a customer of this system, but decided it's just not worth the hassle so now I'm DIY and I've been amazed how efficient it is-- way more than I expected.
My "math" on a repair of a window motor done just this past week (I'll assume for purposes of this illustration that the shop doesn't make a mistake in the diagnosis or repair):
At the dealer:
1) Wife tells me the window on her van is stuck halfway down (with rain expected over the next two days.)
2) Make appointment with dealer/shop. Struggle with "this needs to be done now because of rain" or "make appointment for a couple days from now".
3) After convincing the shop to take it tomorrow, I need to move three car seats to my Durango so my wife can run the kids around and make alternative arrangements to go to work.
4) Drop off car at 8am, call shop at 2pm-- "Sorry, [insert excuse] we haven't gotten to it yet." I can't be angry-- I begged them to take it today and they said they were busy. Get call from shop at 4:30pm, they've checked it out, its the window regulator (motor is dead) and they'll have it in tomorrow and should get it done tomorrow morning. Estimate $90 diagnostic, $150 parts, $80 labor-- total $320 plus tax.
5) Arrange to live for another day without my car. Pick up van the next day, pay charges, switch car seats back, clean up crumbs from my Durango.
6) [Add time and frustration if the problem comes back or if there are new problems caused by a hasty repair.]
DIY:
Come home at 6pm, eat dinner. 6:30pm go out to car and remove 3 screws from door trim. Pop off door trim, disconnect wire harnesses. Pull down vapor shield, unplug window motor. Insert volt meter in window motor harness. Ooops need to reconnect the harness to the window switch attached to trim. Yup, alternating voltage at harness. Double check motor, by connecting 12v source-- it's dead. Open motor casing-- brushes are worn-- jam them in a little further so they'll make contact, reassemble motor. Re-connect harness, put window up, disconnect motor harness so the window can't be lowered again until repair. Put door trim back on. 7:45pm go back in house and read the kids a story before bed. (1hr 15 minutes elapsed time).
Next day-- call parts place-- confirm they have rebuilt motor for $55 plus core. Stop by on way home from work to buy motor. Wait until Saturday morning, install motor in about 20 minutes, including lubing regulator components to avoid a future failure. (Door disassembly and reassembly is much easier now that I've done it once and goes lightning fast.) Total time (including work on the first evening) about 1hr 35minutes.
If I misdiagnose, add an hour. Maybe a $100 if I replace the switch by mistake. It was still easier and less expensive.
To be honest, I'd happily pay the $320 if only it were less trouble. Can you make it less trouble for me?
