Ideally, it would be nice to put a gauge right where the idiot light is now.
Secondly, what is the diameter of the hole where the sending unit goes on the 318? 1/2" NPT?
Thanks for the tips!
Speed Dragon
07-21-2007, 04:51 PM
You know you can change the sending unit and get a stock cluster w/ a gauge ;)
needa440please
07-21-2007, 08:45 PM
Try not to get one that requires you to run hot oil lines under your dashboard. :)
An electric gauge - Eh ?
Megunticook
07-21-2007, 11:01 PM
By "cluster" do you mean the whole instrument panel? Is that the easiest way to go about this?
Can you guys recommend any specific products that I can order online? I was hoping I could just remove the old gauge and swap in the new one.
Now that I think about it, I should probably get a new coolant temp. gauge as well, one that gives you the actual temperature.
Thanks.
Mopower79
07-22-2007, 08:02 AM
Here ya go.. Just what the doctor ordered.. :D
Quality, Function & inexspensive....
http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/sum-g2922.jpg
Only $14.00!!
Heres the link...
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=SUM%2DG2922&N=700+400304+115&autoview=sku
Hope this helps..
Speed Dragon
07-22-2007, 11:32 AM
Yep, those will work too :)
Yeah I meant the whole instrument panel. However you can just swap out the light for the gauge I think.
bherder
07-23-2007, 09:45 AM
Hey Meg, I'd go with Speeds suggestion ... You get the 'stock' gauge and nothing hanging off the bottom of the dash... (I've always ended up hitting my shin on those things anyway....)
You'll have to get the sending unit for it also .... It's 1/8" pipe thread...
Hey post a pic of your dash.. If it's what I think it is, I probably have a gauge in the shop I'll give ya.....
Megunticook
07-23-2007, 01:26 PM
Hey Meg, I'd go with Speeds suggestion ... You get the 'stock' gauge and nothing hanging off the bottom of the dash... (I've always ended up hitting my shin on those things anyway....)
You'll have to get the sending unit for it also .... It's 1/8" pipe thread...
Hey post a pic of your dash.. If it's what I think it is, I probably have a gauge in the shop I'll give ya.....
Hey, thanks pal. Here's what I'm lookin' at:
http://edgeis.com/graphics/projects/truck/instrument-panel.jpg
I took a look at the FSM--probably just a burned out bulb in the light. Sending unit was replaced by the guy who rebuilt the motor back in '97.
I hate to think how long I was driving around with that light not working...should've noticed it.
Can't tell from the FSM whether the gauge, which was available as an option on the W100, would fit right into the same place or whether it was part of a whole different cluster.
One thing that has me confused is the different sending units for the light vs. the gauge. In looking at the photos from RockAuto, they seem to have different diameter threads, or else I can't seem to tell how they thread into the block...
For the light: http://www.smpcorp.com/web_app/catalog/images/PS10.jpg
For the gauge:http://www.smpcorp.com/web_app/catalog/images/PS59.jpg
From the pictures I can't see how these thread into the same hole...maybe I'm missing something.
By the way--if I didn't have sufficient oil pressure when I fired it up after installing the new pump, I'd hear something was wrong even without the light, right? I mean, you'd hear that clicking sound (valves?) like when you start up on a subzero January morning and the oil is thicker than molasses?
Or should I just avoid running the motor until I get the light fixed or a gauge installed? Last think I need is to fry my motor, and I gather than can happend pretty quickly if she's starved for oil.
Megunticook
07-23-2007, 05:09 PM
Here ya go.. Just what the doctor ordered.. :D
Quality, Function & inexspensive....
http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/sum-g2922.jpg
Only $14.00!!
Heres the link...
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=SUM%2DG2922&N=700+400304+115&autoview=sku
Hope this helps..
Thanks--that would be an easy solution! Those come with sending units I presume? Will they thread right into the existing holes in the block? I tried to find details on the website but nothing seems to be there.
bherder
07-23-2007, 08:28 PM
Hey there Meg!
Well, first off, the pics of the two sending units, keep in mind the photo of it (For the 'idiot light' unit) is a lot bigger than the actual part. I know for a fact that the sending unit for a gauge is 1/8" NPT. I can't imagine the holes in the blocks being different for different gauges. Unless there is a bushing or something in there...
Second, if you want to put a stock oil psi gauge in your rig, should be pretty simple. Of course.... I have a spare gauge of eveything EXCEPT the oil gauge! (Figures, don't it?? :D ) If you can wait a little while (Like maybe next week) I'll be going into 'Pull n' Save' in Spokane. You can buy any gauge you want for $2.00 there. In fact a whole insturment cluster (Even the newer computerized fancy-dancy ones) are only about $5.00 :D
Your gauge setup is the same as the 'newer' (Up to 80') rigs, you just have a different shaped dash. You just need to replace the sending unit, Install the gauge, REMOVE the twist-in bulb holder for the idiot light, and you may need a new plastic bezel (Which I DO have extras of) that goes over the gauges, because I'm not sure if the one you have is clear or painted over for the little retangular red hole for the light.
Here is what you'll find when you pull the gauge cluster (See pic) ... Don't be confused at what you see, as this pic (Mine) has the IC 5 volt regulator change-over. You'll find on yours, a little box (Voltage reg for the instruments) that plugs into the back...
Anywho, lemme know which direction you decide to go (I'll be getting spare oil psi gauges, no matter what, now that I know I don't have one ;) ) .... If you wanna go stock or aftermarket.... ;)
Megunticook
07-23-2007, 09:46 PM
A stock gauge would probably be the best solution--thanks for offering. I will throw in the cost of your favorite 6-pack as your finder's fee. I'll try to get a minute to pull my panel and see whether I also need a plastic bezel.
While I'm in there, I should also probably get my fuel gauge working. Went out a few years ago, I'm not sure why. Never bothered to try and fix it (I had one go bad on my old '70 D100 that I spend countless hours troubleshooting--never did figure it out).
And I suppose I should tackle the ammeter bypass. Did you just leave the ammeter dead in your panel, or did you put a voltmeter in? I kind of hate to give up the ammeter, I like how it gives me an instant reading on what the charging system is doing at any time.
Speed Dragon
07-23-2007, 09:57 PM
Brand new or NOS stock gauges used to be on ebay fairly reasonable all the time. And check the ground wire on the fuel sending unit, if it's got all rusty where it screws to the frame that will keep it from working.
bherder
07-24-2007, 09:05 AM
And I suppose I should tackle the ammeter bypass. Did you just leave the ammeter dead in your panel, or did you put a voltmeter in? I kind of hate to give up the ammeter, I like how it gives me an instant reading on what the charging system is doing at any time.
I left my ammeter in there, dead in the water... Installed an aftermarket volt meter. I have seen where others have never had any probs with their ammeter, and I suspect that they are either a: Real lucky, or b: do periodic maintenance of their electrical system (Like cleaning and tightening connectors etc) that most people never do....
So I guess it's up to you... It would be nice to have both however ;)
Speed Dragon
07-24-2007, 07:40 PM
To be honest, I like the ammeter, I like seeing if it's charging or not. Also I've never actually had any problem w/ the ammeter in my trucks. Guess I'm lucky :D
bherder
07-25-2007, 12:25 AM
To be honest, I like the ammeter, I like seeing if it's charging or not. Also I've never actually had any problem w/ the ammeter in my trucks. Guess I'm lucky :D
Heh heh... Lucky, yes you are! :D
Oh hey Speed, I agree with ya 1000% ... I'd LOVE to have a working (Stock) Ammeter and volt gauge... ONE of these days I'll figure out how to do it, without the typical probs/meltdown that the Dodge Boys decided to ignore...
You ever really look at one of the stock amp gauges? (The back side) Pretty flimsy looking, really... I'm amazed (And I'm no Electrical Engineer) that the thin strip on the back can pass even 40 amps, let alone 60-100...
I have noticed one thing though, from the many dash's that I've taken apart... Somewhere, not sure when, but somewhere in the mid-70's, The Dodge Boys, went from a pot-metal basket (That the cluster sets in) to a plastic one. I see this as part of the problem, AND lack of problem for the early 70's rigs.... I see it this way...
OK, you've got a 'weak' link in the system as it is... If the wire going through the bulkhead, to the amp gauge, starts to heat things up a bit... If the lugs for the amp gauge going through the basket get hot, they'll melt and distort the plastic PDQ. Seen it a few times. Then, the nuts/connections on the amp gauge will become loose and make the prob even worse, because you don't have nice tight connections anymore.....
On the other hand.... If the basket is metal, even if the lugs on the ammeter get hot, nothing is going to melt and get loose... See where I'm going here? ;) That may be the reason you and Meg (And others) havent had any problems, while guys like me (Granted, running a snow-plow motor pulling 50-60 amps, which I'm SURE is what melted the plastic basket to begin with) are still picking hunks of melted crap out from under the dash....
Any thoughts? (Hey CHUMP!!! Where you at? I KNOW you KNOW :D :D )
Speed Dragon
07-25-2007, 10:44 PM
They stopped using the metal basket when they went to the newer style dash.
bherder
07-25-2007, 11:09 PM
Yeah, they must of saved themselves $2.00 per rig.....
Speed Dragon
07-25-2007, 11:22 PM
Lol maybe. The metal ones won't work w/ the newer "winged" dashes.
Megunticook
07-26-2007, 12:57 PM
OK, I've got everything apart, man it's filthy. What should I use to clean it up without damaging that circuit board?
It looks like the bulb for the oil light is OK, maybe there's a loose connection somewhere, or the sending unit went bad.
Tried to gently remove the idiot light from the front of the cluster, seems like it should snap right out of there, but it didn't want to go and I didn't want to force it. Any trick? Will a gauge drop right in there? I'm wondering though if the gauge can be wired up correctly on that board...I'm thinking not, but maybe I have to look at it more closely.
I'll try and get some photos up.
p.s. aside from general grunge, no signs of problems at the ammeter. Connections were tight and no melted insulation or other signs of heat in the wiring. I will clean that up good, though, and replace the nuts and terminals.
bherder
07-26-2007, 08:07 PM
OK, I've got everything apart, man it's filthy. What should I use to clean it up without damaging that circuit board?
Blow all the dirt off of it to begin with.... Just wipe the rest off with a damp rag. Where there are actual connections, scrub it with some '000' steel wool.
Should you choose to use (And I wouldn't) some sort of 'electrical contact cleaner', BE VERY careful what you use. The LAST thing you want to do is lift the traces off the board...
It looks like the bulb for the oil light is OK, maybe there's a loose connection somewhere, or the sending unit went bad.
Both very possible... It's a dirt-simple circuit... Sending unit (A simple on-off switch) is 'ground' .... Wire that connects to the switch goes through the bulkhead connector.... Then to that 'round' plug that connects to the back of the PCB .... Trace going to the bulb, with power to the other side of the bulb....
Tried to gently remove the idiot light from the front of the cluster, seems like it should snap right out of there, but it didn't want to go and I didn't want to force it. Any trick?
YIKES!!!!! You shouldn't have to force anything... It's a simple 'twist-out' plastic socket .... Like a 90 degree twist.....
Will a gauge drop right in there? I'm wondering though if the gauge can be wired up correctly on that board...I'm thinking not, but maybe I have to look at it more closely.
I'll try and get some photos up.
Post a pic of the back-side of your PCB, I'll be able to tell ya pretty quick.
IT SHOULD be able to use either/or ... The PCB's I've delt with have always been good or both, (Cheaper to only have to make one board) just depends on the options and stuff either in it or not in it ;)
p.s. aside from general grunge, no signs of problems at the ammeter. Connections were tight and no melted insulation or other signs of heat in the wiring. I will clean that up good, though, and replace the nuts and terminals.
Yes, make sure everything is 'shiny' clean... While your at it, disconnet the plugs going into the bulkhead connectors and THOSE you can give a good healty squirt of 'electrical contact cleaner'....
Megunticook
07-27-2007, 11:18 PM
YIKES!!!!! You shouldn't have to force anything... It's a simple 'twist-out' plastic socket .... Like a 90 degree twist.....
Sorry, I wasn't clear there. Didn't mean the bulb itself, I meant the thing that has the black face with the red lens, that the bulb illuminates. The thing that the gauge would replace. In looking at it closer it appears there are two metal tabs that need to be (gently) pried inward with something while the thing is pulled out of the slots.
I went ahead and ordered the Summit duo gauges that Mopower recommended. Decided maybe the best solution is to install a "T" fitting, as you suggested, so I can keep the original idiot light and also have the mechanical gauge to give me an accurate reading.
What is the diameter and thread pitch (NPT?) of the oil pressure sending unit?
How about the coolant one?
Cleaned up the circuit board with some of that "plastic" steel wool stuff--forget what they call it, comes in different colors. Got the copper nice and shiny where the bulbs and nuts contact it. Also bought some new nuts for the ammeter and temp. and fuel gauges. an cleaned up the screws on 'em.
You think a little diaelectric grease would be a good idea on any of these connections? Didn't see a lot of corrosion, but there was a little green/black crud here and there.
Oh--one of those little male pins where the circular female wiring connector plugs in was loose and came off its base on the circuit board after I gently pried off the connector. S'pose I can solder that back on with a 15W iron?
Speed Dragon
07-28-2007, 07:39 AM
That red lens is the brake light, supposed to come on when the parking brake is applied.
Megunticook
07-28-2007, 08:04 AM
That red lens is the brake light, supposed to come on when the parking brake is applied.
On mine that one's orange. There's another, red lens that occupies the lower right portion of the 4-gauge cluster (you can see it in the photo I posted earlier in the thread).
One other question, though--the plastic bulb bases (the ones that twist into the circuit board)--mind have different combos of letters and numbers on the back. Does it matter which goes where? From what I can see, they all do the same thing, but maybe I'm missing something.
On one of mine, one of the plastic tabs is broken off, which probably means it won't make good contact with the circuit board. Wonder if I can get a replacement...
Megunticook
07-28-2007, 09:30 AM
OK, just tried to get a socket on the old sending unit to remove it and clearly it needs a deep socket of some kind. Anybody know what size?
I think I can get something on it by going straight down with an extender on the ratchet, but everything I tried seemed to be bottoming out.
For a minute there I thought I'd have to remove the coil and maybe even the distributor just to reach the damn thing, but it looks like I may be able to do it without that hassle. Of course hand-starting the t-fitting in there is going to be a bitch, as I don't think my hand fits.
And not sure there's going to be a lot of room for the 2 sending units on either end of the t. Gotta love those Chrysler engineers. That last thing they cared about was the guy working on the motor!
Megunticook
07-28-2007, 09:50 AM
Never mind about the socket, I poked around online and think I found what I need (special 1 1/16" socket):
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/OBJECTS/33400/33368.JPG
Speed Dragon
07-28-2007, 02:45 PM
You mean the oil light? All that tuff (gauges and the oil light) unbolt from the back, they have studs that go through to the back of the cluster and have 3/8 nuts on them.
charlie1935
07-28-2007, 03:18 PM
And not sure there's going to be a lot of room for the 2 sending units on either end of the t. Gotta love those Chrysler engineers. That last thing they cared about was the guy working on the motor!
__________________
How about using a length of flexible oil line and put the second sending unit somewhere else? :gr_patrio
bherder
07-29-2007, 02:06 PM
One other question, though--the plastic bulb bases (the ones that twist into the circuit board)--mind have different combos of letters and numbers on the back. Does it matter which goes where? From what I can see, they all do the same thing, but maybe I'm missing something.
They should be all the same...
On one of mine, one of the plastic tabs is broken off, which probably means it won't make good contact with the circuit board. Wonder if I can get a replacement...
Any parts store should have them ... Or just collect them from the junkyard like I do ;)
For a minute there I thought I'd have to remove the coil and maybe even the distributor just to reach the damn thing, but it looks like I may be able to do it without that hassle. Of course hand-starting the t-fitting in there is going to be a bitch, as I don't think my hand fits.
Told ya it was not gonna be fun.. ;)
And not sure there's going to be a lot of room for the 2 sending units on either end of the t.
You should be able to make it fit.. Mine has the big 'gauge' sender and another switch, that is the size of the idiot light switch, that is part of the electrical for the choke... It'll fit, its just reeeeeal tight...
Gotta love those Chrysler engineers. That last thing they cared about was the guy working on the motor!
No no no no ... That's FURD engineers! :D :D :D
Speed Dragon
07-29-2007, 02:15 PM
No no no no ... That's FURD engineers!
+1 to that, I hate working on Fords.
Megunticook
08-03-2007, 09:34 AM
UPS brought my oil switch socket today--I had that sending unit out of the block and in my hand in about 30 seconds!
Nothing like having the right tool.
Now if I can just locate a 1/8" t-fitting--tried to local hardware, nothing that small, will get to the CarQuest this weekend and see what they have.
Speed Dragon
08-03-2007, 09:16 PM
You know some trucks/cars had factory dual outlet fittings ;) Try like maybe a mid-80's van, should have one. Cars/trucks of those years should too.
bherder
08-03-2007, 11:10 PM
UPS brought my oil switch socket today--I had that sending unit out of the block and in my hand in about 30 seconds!
Nothing like having the right tool.
Now if I can just locate a 1/8" t-fitting--tried to local hardware, nothing that small, will get to the CarQuest this weekend and see what they have.
Any hardware store should have a ton of brass fittings (If not, they're not a hardware store..)
And you Do want to use brass.... ;)
Megunticook
08-04-2007, 09:00 AM
All set...dug one out of the brass fittings bins at CQ yesterday. Also picked up some of those bulb sockets that twist into the circuit board of the cluster.
I'm thinking I'll thread in the oil gauge capillary tube to the "side" outlet of the T-fitting before installing it on the block, since doing that in such a confined space may be really hard (threading the stock sending unit into the top shouldn't be a big deal on the other hand).
Then again, there may not be enough clearance with the distributor and/or coil to thread the T into the block with the tube pre-installed.
Hope this doesn't make for 2-hour frustration-fest.
Megunticook
08-05-2007, 12:16 AM
Sure enough, the T-fitting won't clear the lip in the block with the capillary tube installed in the side port. Which means I get to thread the T in first, then pull the coil and/or distributor so I can get my hands in there, and then hopefully get the tube and fittings threaded in. I can already tell this is going to be either a real pain in the butt or simply impossible.
And of course the new stock sending unit that just arrived from Rock Auto (which got left out of the box when they shipped the original order earlier in the week) is the wrong diameter--it appears they shrunk the hole for the oil pressure sending unit in 1974 to 1/8"--my truck is a 1973 but it was built in May, and I'm finding that it seems to have a lot of 1974 specs.
To top off my totally unproductive day, I stupidly hopped up into the engine compartment without bothering to change into my mechanic's jumpsuit, and promptly ripped the seat of my pants when they caught on something.
Some days you should just leave the damn thing alone...lucky I didn't break something!
Megunticook
09-01-2007, 09:02 PM
Just a quick follow up now that I've finally got it all back together and test driven.
Took the oil pressure gauge out of the twin bracket it came in, drilled a hole in my instrument panel where the optional clock or tach would go (mine didn't have one), and mounted it. Doesn't look too shabby:
http://edgeis.com/graphics/projects/truck/new-oil-pressure-gauge.jpg
Seems to run at about 40-50 average, gets up to 60 or 70 at higher speeds and will drop to 30 at idle (although I need to adjust mine back up to factory settings).
Nice to have that info. all the time. And the idiot light is working too.
I won't tell you how much time it took me fussing with that sending unit setup.
I have an extra Standard Auto Parts sending unit (idiot light) if anybody needs one--fits 1973 and earlier 318 (not sure how far back). Just let me know and it's yours free
