2.7 problems

[rampage99]

Can anyone offer any info on 2.7's in late model Intrepids. I understand that there are many engines checking out with less than 80000 miles. Has Dodge responded to this problem in any way?

[Ghost Shooter]

Well, I'm a first time poster, but I guess I will offer my personal tidbit of info. My '99 Intrepid has less than 68000 miles on it, and its already cost me over $5000 to repair in the last 2.5 years. The last repair was for the PCM, which cost me over $700 (and later I found out that Chrysler warranties the PCM as part of the emissions system for 80,000 miles...I was mad to say the least). When it went, it left me stranded at work for a whole weekend (good thing I work in a private EMS company and the supervisor was kind enough for me to run home in the ambulance while on duty to take a shower). It spend 2 weeks in the shop. 16 days before that, the starter, cooling fan, and AC died on me. That cost just under $1500 to fix. According to the owner of the shop, the cooling fan died, then caused the AC system to become overpressured, and the evaporator cracked. Also, in the month before that, I had to have the transmission input and output speed sensor replaced, as well as the oil sending unit. Now, the car runs, but there is a noticeable amount of smoke from the tail pipe, and the electrical system seems to have voltage regulation problems, causing the ALL of the lights to flicker/dim. I suspect the engine is going to die. I just hope its after I graduate.

Sorry about the rant

Ghost

[Ram-Avenger]

The wife has a 2000 with 70k. The only trouble has been both fans went out. At least not at the same time.

[miami_dolfin]

have your engine checked out for sludge build-up asap. it's a known problem, however chrysler isn't admitting it yet. most engines begin to have problems around 70,000 or so.

[sinastis]

if your motors go from sludge build up, get a 3.2, it will cost you less to buy one than a 2.7 will and they will be more reliable. Supposedly they fixed the sludge issue on the 2001's and up in the 2.7

[alansperr]

My 98 Intrepid went out with 80k on it and ended up buying a used one with 15k on it for $4500. Come to find out that the oil pick up tube is too small and that causes the top end not to get enough oil. Which in turn cause sludge to build up due to the parafin in the oil. My suggestion to you is to buy an engine that runs and install it and sell the car quickly. Recently my car was stolen and recovered. The thiefs ended up doing some considerable body damage and the insurance company totalled it and let me keep the car. The engine only has about 30k on it now. I will sell it for $2000 and that will come with all accessories like the a/c compressor, p/s pump, belts and all. Also will sell any other parts you need off of it. CHEAP! Email me at alan@sperr.org or call 256-430-9559 at night or 256-539-6513 during day if you are interested. My name is Alan Sperr.

PS Sorry about your problems but Chrysler is not taking responsibility for any of there design flaws so all intrepid owners must take it up the tail pipe.

[sinastis]

I'd still go get a 3.2 or a 3.5 to put in it and keep the car. Plenty of people do it, it's not to bad to do it. The 2.7 L computer will run both a 3.2 and a 3.5, it will be cheaper than getting a 2.7. The 2.7's are more expensive beleive it or not. And with the 3.2 or 3.5 you'll have more power.

[Bilhar]

I have a 99 Intrepid and it has been an excellent car, I replaced two sensors on the Transmission, change the oil and filter and had the computer re flashed, best everyone do that, at 50K miles or so, now the 2.7 Engine, seems to be a lot of problems with that Engine failing, however, as I see it, the failure is not Engine Sludge , but rather a Timing Chain failure, it is uncommon for a Timing Chain to break, most often as they wear the gain Slack, and then silp a cog on a Gear, I am not certain as yet, but I suspect that maybe the Chain is not and has not been properly Lubricated from the time the car is first Driven, and therin lies the problem, people taking their car to the dealer, are I think Mislead, pointing to Sludge in the engine as the cause when it has nothing to do with the Timing Chain break, the Timing chain is not inside the Engine, If the Dealer makes you accept lack of maintenace is the cause, then its Your Problem, and many will see the Sludge and say ok, this is a Diversion from a built in Flaw, NO TIMING CHAIN LUBRICATION, prove that and its Chryslers Problem. Remember the Timing Chain is not inside the Engine. I am going to find out how that timing Chain is supposed to be lubricated, if anyone knows this, let us know.

[Bilhar]

Is this the problem with the 2.7

Chrysler 2.7L V-6 - Engine Sludge/Timing Chain Tensioner Failed/Loud Knocking Noises Heard

The problem is due to shoddy workmanship; specifically, aluminum flash is not cleaned off machined aluminum engine surfaces before the engine is assembled. This flash will eventually break off of the aluminum engine components, and will travel all throughout the engine via the oil supply system. Severity of engine problems due to this manufacturing defect depend on oil change schedules and oil filter change schedules. Severity could run from a severe knocking at certain engine RPMs, to jumped valve timing, to a complete and catastrophic engine seizure.

Aluminum flash will eventually break off of the aluminum engine parts. I've seen flash as coming from the cylinder heads, but the engine block is also suspect as it is also made out of aluminum. There is a good chance that the flash will come from the valve cover sealing surface, although it might also come from the machined oil galleries.


Approximate 1 inch section of Machined Valve Cover Sealing Surface that Aluminum Flash was Scraped Off


Aluminum Flash that was Scraped Off from Approximate 1 inch section of Machined Valve Cover Sealing Surface


The flash will then travel down into the oil pan, where it will eventually get sucked into the oil pump via the oil pickup tube. There is a screen on the inlet of the oil pickup tube that will catch most particles; however, small particles will get through. Depending on how badly the screen is plugged, suction may force larger particles to go through the screen and into the oil pump.


Oilpan After Removal, Showing Presence of Aluminum Flash

The flash will then be pumped through the oil pump rotors. At this point, the flash may either work its way into the oil pressure relief valve, or may pass on through to the oil filter. If the flash gets into the oil pressure relief valve, it will cause that valve to jam partially shut, removing overpressure protection from the engine components. This, in turn, may cause the timing chain tensioner o-ring to blow out into the oilpan, and cause a large oil leak to form out of the clearance between the timing chain tensioner and its socket in the right-hand cylinder head.

If the flash makes it to the oil filter, it may be stopped here. However, if the recommended "normal" oil change interval is followed according to the owner's manual, then it is very possible that enough flash will build up to cause the bypass in the oil filter to open. If this occurs, then the oil filter itself no longer provides protection, and aluminum flash will then go through the entire engine.

If this occurs, the flash will make it into the tight machined tolerances in the valve lash adjusters in the cylinder heads, will cause the valve lash adjusters to jam, and will cause valve knock from valve lash adjuster failure. Flash will also get into the bearing surfaces for the camshafts, and cause gouging of these surfaces.


Failed Primary Timing Chain Tensioner and Tensioner O-ring, Along with a Few Bits of Aluminum Flash

If the timing chain tensioner loses its o-ring, there will now be a large hole formed by the clearance between the tensioner body and its socket in the right-hand cylinder head. This will cause an abnormal oil flow path, and will cause system oil pressure to drop below normal. At idle for a normal warmed up engine, oil pressure should be around 5 psig. With the failure described due to a blown out tensioner o-ring, oil pressure at idle for a warmed up engine could well be zero psig.

If this occurs, then there will be little to no oil flow to other parts of the engine. At this point, it is important to realize that oil serves both as a lubricant and as a coolant. In those areas of the engine where low/no oil flow occurs, oil temperatures in these low/no flow areas will rise. Oil in these high temperature areas may heat up to the point where they will caramelize; that is, turn into sludge. This sludge will build up on the walls of the affected areas, and may well cause complete blockage of oil flow if enough sludge is formed.

If sludge builds up to this extent, then the engine components that were served by the blocked oil passages will fail. The most common component to fail here are connecting rod bearings. Piston rings may also experience oil starvation, and will eventually weld themselves to the cylinder walls. When this occurs, the engine will have permanently seized.

If any of these symptoms occur, the only way to fix the problem is to replace or completely rebuild the engine. There is no way to guarantee that all of the aluminum flash in the engine would be removed without doing either of these actions. Therefore, there is no guarantee that simply changing the timing chain tensioner, oil pump, and valve lash adjusters, will fix the problem.

A good preventive measure for peace of mind is to religiously change the oil every 3000 miles, and change the oil filter at these intervals. I highly recommend the use of fully synthetic oil, as it is more resistant to sludging due to overheating than normal oil is. Follow the "severe duty" schedule found in the owner's manual; do not rely on the "normal" schedule as very few cars actually qualify for this schedule. I would also recommend that an oil pressure gauge be installed. Do not rely on the oil pressure warning light, since if it lights up, it's too late to prevent engine seizure.

[schoolmom6]

:mad: Our Intrepid, which had the oil changed on the correct timetable, checked out at 65,000 miles. This was about 6 months ago and we finally are able to dump the $6,000 into it to replace the faulty engine due to the sludge epidemic that Dodge is unwilling to acknowledge. Our family of 7 has done without a second car for 6 months and the guy at Customer Service basically told me I had a lot of nerve even calling after the car was past its warranty. I love the way that car handles, and it's gorgeous....I'd love to get another but it'll be my last because this thing has cost me more than a Mercedes to own once you figure in the repair, the rentals I've had to deal with in the meantime, the junker I had to pick up and use over the summer, etc. I've you've had problems, please make a lot of noise. The consumers shouldn't have to eat this problem.

[Bilhar]

My 99 Intrepid has 62K miles now, I am using Synthetic oil , it does not sludge, and I am thinking of handing the car down to my wife, as a second car, but think I will have the Timing chain replaced, etc, my intuition tells me this problem is lack of lubrication of the Timing Chain, and when it fails, the zero tolerance engine, parts collide, will let you know how this works out.
And if that 2.7 does fail, I am diffenetly going for the 3.2 change out, and thanks to the guy who posted that information on the Computer running both engines,

[MDK333]

Thanks for the posts...you are making me feel a lot better about my purchase of an '01 with 50K. ;) I bought it in Feb and already have put 25K on it. It still runs great and have had no problems so far. But, I guess I better ask Santa Clause for an engine swap.
I did buy the extended warranty on the drivetrain to 100K miles so if it happens, I hope it happens before then.
Keep the great information coming.

[DctrD76]

Does anyone have any further information on replacing the 2.7 with a 3.2/3.5? I read the note that the computers are the same. What about any of the other componants. My present 2.7 dosn't show signs of sludge but the oil pressure light comes on at idle. Any thoughts?

[TLONG]

I am posting this for all Intrepid owners who have had to replace the engine do to Sludge. As you may know by my past postings I am a recent victim of the 2.7 Intrepid engine. I recalled our local new channel doing a story on this problem. I found the story on the new channels web site. I called the station and asked to talk to the reporter that did the story. Although I did not talk to her, the lady on the phone told me that the US Department of Transportation was taking reports on this. I called! After I got though the automated phone system, (you want to talk to a live rep.) I told the lady about my car and she asked if I wanted to file a complaint and I told her yes. She took my complaint and told me that she would mail it to me. I was to sign it and send it back. From there it would forwarded to the Department of Defects. I am urging ALL Intrepid users to do this. I am providing you the phone number for US Department of transportation. My hope is that if they get enough complaints maybe something can happen. PLEASE call: 1-888-327-4236. If you would like the link to my local television station story I would be glad to email it to you, Just email me at TLONG672@msn.com. Subject: Intrepid engine so I know you are not junk email. Thanks.

[Bilhar]

I wish someone who has experienced Engine failure would provide a complete explanation of what happen to the engine, or Dodge would be even better.

Does the Timing Chain break, is that the problem, or does the engine Sieze up. So far I am inclined to think its the Timing Chain, and I think maybe the dam thing gets no lubrication from the get go. or the lube to the Timing chain, gets blocked early on.

If it can be proven that the Timing chain is not getting lubed, from the time the car is in Warranty, its a latent defect and should be covered under warranty, in other words from day of discovery if the problem is concealed.

Someone of some group, needs to study, the Engine failure and Replacement of the engine in the Saturn, Vega, and other known lemons, how those cases were won. And GM forced to replace those faulty engines.

[Bilhar]

You can buy Intrepids real cheap because of this problem, I saw a 2002, for $6900 the other day, 45k miles, a hell of a deal, and low enough to buy an Extended Warranty, so what the hell , I might just do it, My 99 has been a great car so far, no problems. 64K miles now.

[peter_w67401]

I have a 99 Intrepid with 81K on it. I have ZERO sludge and I do use SYNTHETIC oil. These engines run hotter that older engines and as a result they tend to cook the "Dinosaur" oil. The synthetice being a pure man made petroleum molicule deals with the heat much better. The flash issue plugging the oil passages is one way that the timing chain can break but i feel the real culprit is using less expensive conventional oil in your engine then driving the heck out of it and cooking it on to the hot internals. It seems that every engine that fails has sludge, and sludge is caused by oil getting too hot and cooking on to the components. IF flash is the culprit then it will be found in the oil passages. Always use a good name brand Synthetic oil and change it every 2000 miles and you should not have any lube issues pertaining to sludge. You also might try running a quart of Rislone in place of a quart of oil every 6 months or so as a preventative measure against any unwanted buildups inside the engine.

[690hp]

man, the 2.7L intrepids hate you, mines acting fine.(kinda)

[Bilhar]

Something is wrong with all these scenarios about Sludge, for sludge to form two things must be happening, one is never changing the oil, the other is the Engine getting so hot, and operating hot, the dam heat gage would pop out of the dash.

If Sludge is bad enough for some reason to fail the engine, which I doubt, it would not drain out on an oil change, certainly someone would notice the little oil that drained, and when 5 quarts of new oil was added, it would be over filled. The other thing is Oil pressure is measured by resistance at the Crank bearings, if oil is not getting to the bearings, the oil light would be on, something just does not add up about all this. Oil pump failure, or no lube on the timing chain sounds more reasonable to me.

[Bilhar]

Synthetic Oil- I see no reason to change Syn Oil every 2 or 3 thousand miles, when it is designed to last 20 thousand, change the Filter at 3 maybe, but there is no point in an oil change at 2000 with Syn oil. If flash or anything else gets into the oil, the damge is done,long before 2000 miles, or the filter will trap it and no damage will occur, and the filter is the only saftey feature for this.

If Engine Flash, is the problem here, I wish someone would prove it, because if it is present in a faliled engine, Chrysler is on the hook for the cost of repair.

[paulhiggs]

My 1999 2.7 Intrepid has just rolled over 113000 miles and has recently (say the last 4000 miles) been burning and leaking a little oil. I've never had any problems and use the car all over the west coast and also to haul around my 2 jetskis on a trailer.
A transmission speed sensor went out once causing the transmission to stay in a really low gear and the belts have been replaced. Apart from that, nothing major.
I'll run the engine some more (perhaps 7000 miles) and see what shape its in then. Seems like a swap to a 3.5 could be on the cards if it is an easy install.

Paul

[Bilhar]

Hi Paul, that speed sensor thing is very common at 42 to 45 k miles, there are two of them, mine acted up like yours, so replaced both, and changed the oil and filters, reflashed and adjusted the bands,on the Tranny, cost was about 189 bucks, not bad, and the oil should be change anyway. No problems of any kind since, but I did change to Synthetic oil, because of this alledged Sludge thing.

[peter_w67401]

I have seen oil cook in engines and not pop out the damn gauge as described above. I work in the engine industry and i have seen first hand the CUMULATIVE damage of sludge. As was also pointed out above if there was an oil pump issue then there would also be damage to every pressure lubed bearing in the engine. This isnt usully the case. What has been found generally is alot of crap in the rocker arm area. Approximately 40 % of the engines cooling ability is provided by the oil. And to say that the newer generation of engines dosent run hotter than the old cast iron engines denys the affect the EPA has on the car makers. IF the oil pump is bad the engine will lock up plain and simple. If you use crappy oil it will sludge up. As to leaving synthetic oil in your case for a large number of miles, I would advise against it. The oil while it will stay in tact for that long will still have contaminants in it. That is a part of the job oil does in an engine. Simple putting a new filter on and adding a quart will do nothing but plug the new filter right away and throw it into bypass mode and you will be pumping dirty oil thru your engine. Dont be cheap..............Change out the oil and filter!!!

[certified mgr]

As A Daimler Chrysler Certified Service Manager With 28 Years Experience On Chrysler/dodge/plymouth Vehicles At 4 Different Dealerships From Montana To Florida I Can Sum Up The So Called Sludge Problem With All Engines I Have Seen Including 2.7, 4.7, 3.9, 5.9, 5.2, 3.7 225 Slant Six, 2.2, 2.5, 3.0, 2.6, 2.4 Etc. As Far Back As The Mid Seventies In One Statement. Lack Of Proper Maintenance! Oil Changes At Regular Intervals For A Starter Is The Biggest Cause Of Sludge Build Up In Motors. In Every Case I Have Been Involved With That A Engine Failed During Or After The Powertrain Warranty Period The Current Owner Was Not Able To Come Up With Any Legal Documents Confirming His Claim Of "i Change Or Have The Oil Changed Every 3000 Miles". I Have Seen Many Attempts To Produce Bogus Or Fraudulent Records From Independent Shops Until The The Shop Owner Or Manager Is Advised He Or She May Have To Go To Court. In Most Cases The Victim Of Oil Sludging Is The Second Owner Who Purchased The Vehicle From A Used Car Lot, Auction Or Private Owner And Have No Knowledge Of The Previous Owners Maintenance Habits. You Can Blame The Problem On Everything From The Manufacturer To The Engineers That Designed The Engines To The Brand Of Oil Used. But It All Boils Down To Regular Oil Changes. Every Owner I Have Interviewed That Can Produce Documents Or Has Records In Our Computers Confirming Regular Oil Changes And Some Have Milages In Excess Of 100,000 Miles And A Variety Of All Engines Do Not Have And Have Never Had A Sludge Problem. I Myself And My Family Have Had More Chrysler/dodge Vehicles Than I Can Possibly Remember But I Can Not Remember A Single Incident Of Any Sludged Motor Problem.
I Find It Amusing The Statement " I Shut The Engine Off As Soon As I Lost Oil Pressure". Anybody With Any Mechanical Knowledge Knows The Damage To This Engine, From The Pictures, Had Been Occurring Long Before He Shut The Engine Off. I Am Tired Of Hearing The Whining And Crying Over Sludged Motors From Owners. Either Admit Your Poor Maintenance Habits Or That You Got Stuck With A Vehicle That Somebody Else Sludged Up And Fix It Or Sell It To Somebody Else And Stick Them With The Problem. Like I Always Say Pay Me Now Or Pay Me Later!

[peter_w67401]

AMEN certified mgr!

[rocan]

My car "sludged" up and I had to replace the engine (my cost, close to $5000). I had proof of regular oil changes via my local Dodge garage. Granted, I had almost 100,000 miles on it when it happened, but the fact remains certified mgr it does happen. So climb down off your soap box.

Thank You

P.S. You say to sell it and stick it to someone else. That sounds like the kind of advice one would expcet to here from a Daimler Chrysler employee. Pass the buck.

[jmhaber]

My99 was purchased in 1999 aith 74 miles on it. The car seldome sees long trips and it sees oil changes between 3 to 4 thousand miles. The engine developed a knock on start up, but at idel on up there were no problems...then I noticed that it started to use 2 quarts between oil changes, and had no power at idle to highway speed unless you really got on it. I took it to the dealer with my service contract (i had no records as the car was stolen a little over a year ago) and they said they would look at it. I deal with these guys all the time and get nothing but good service and with in 24 hours I was told that it needed a new bottom end and the heads needed to be reworked (only 57K). The car has been gone about a week and should be done by this comming Friday. I am thankful I purchased the "gold" contract and would be out over 10k for all the repairs i have had done under the contract. I have read allot on this and have realized that most people who use synthetic and change oil aggresivley have not had many propblems. I will have to do the same, no matter what the casting year on this new block to avoid future problems.

[Slider]

Hey Certified Mgr- if there are no problems, why is D-C making financial settlements with 2.7L owners?

Methinks thou doth protesteth too much.

[poliojoe]

My 2.7 in my 2001 Stratus was running fine when I traded it in with 105,000 miles---I changed the oil and filter every 3000 miles with havoline 5-30----maybe I just got lucky!

[peter_w67401]

You have to remember that oil does more than lubricate the engine. It is a major source of coolong for the engine as it transfers heat fromn the internals to the block and heads. Just because synthetic oil dosent break down like regular oil dosent mean you souldnt change it! The base might not break down but the other additives like detergents do! As to just changing the filter at 5K, All you do is plug up the new filter right off with the dirty oil and throw it into bypass mode. Get all of the old oil out and keep it changed is the best policy in my opinion. I have 84K on my car now and have not had issue one yet (knock on wood). I guess I must be doing something right?!?!

[Old Navy]

The 2.7L engines were and still are bad to sludge if any you use a oil other then a 0w or 5w oil do to high heat and poor oil return from small oil return passages in the engine and they will have problem with cam chain damage if oil doesn't have the proper shear strength to go with the high heat range.

Some synthetic oils are lacking the proper shear strength, such as the Mobil 1 synthetic 10w-30 and several other synthetic brands also have some oils not proper to use in a 2.7L engine.

My new 2.7L SE Magnum was switched to the Mobil 1 0w-40, at first oil change, that can be had at the Dodge dealer as it is a required oil for the MB/Dodge Sprinter diesel which by the way gets 10k mile oil intervals. The oil meets the heat requirement, shear requirements and the viscosity of 5w or less to prevent sludging and can be easily driven to 6k mile oil & filter change on the 2.7L engine without any sludge forming.

Early signs of sludge is caked on brown stuff on dipstick, that can't be wiped off without using a brake cleaner spray. A friend self destructed his Toyota with sludge build up in '03 and it was always serviced at the dealer according to manual, they first refused to warranty the car. But after some talking with owner and my friends law partner, and Toyota paid the bill.

[Avenger95]

I'm going to speak as the idiot consumer here. The culture today is definately a case where people get themselves in trouble and have to blame someone else. "I'm fat, so I need to sue McDonalds" or "Nobody warned me the coffee was hot".
My 2000 Intrepid failed at 43K miles - major sludge build-up and the timing chain tensionser stuck causing the chain to jump. Having only changed the oil and filter about 3 times, I don't expect any recourse form Chrysler.
But that said, let's not spin it as a properly designed motor either. Over the last 20 years I owned 10 different vehicles - all treated with the same poor habits like this one and all well over 150K miles - and in ALL cases, NEVER an engine failure. Also never saw any indications of a serious sludge problem. I had a 78 Celica given to me by the original owner in 88 with over 220K miles with never an oil change (or coolant) - I ran it another 100K before the floor boards were so rusted out, that it wasn't safe to drive (still no oil change- was afraid to at that point). I currently have a 95 Ford F-350 which I bought 2 years ago with 200K miles on it - have put another 50K on it and it still runs great. Just traded in my 95 Avenger with 180K on it. Maybe I'm just a real lucky guy......
Given that there is a good deal of squawk about this particular motor, and that it was redesigned after 2000 and that other manufacturers have had similar "sludge motor" problems that they admitted and rectified would lead any layman to the believe that this one was poorly designed, at least in a relative sense. It sounds like this motor needs to be really pampered.
I have a hard time believing that only customers that bought the 2.7 have poor maintenance habits.

[Old Navy]

Avenger 95 you speak of cars that had high mileage with same treatment and all were prior to '97, have you thought about that? With the start of '98 model year all car engines, (trucks not included or effected), for use in the US had their oil return lines/crank case vent lines reduced to a 1/4 of their original size by order of the EPA to help eliminate more air pollution. This caused a slow down of the oil flow and led to the oil being overheated in the heads of some engines that have higher head temps then some other designs, such as the 3.5L engine in D/C line.

Some mfg's new at the beginning some cars would need special oil viscosity and/or additive package. MB realized the need and notified dealers, original fill oil was proper, but to many people were of the mind set 10w-30 or 20w-50 was good enough for all my cars in the past it will do just fine in the new car. Wrong answer big time. The factory fill for the MB engine with the same basic design as the 2.7L comes with Mobil 1 0w-40 that has the ACEA A3, B3/B4 rating for high temp shear strength to prevent premature cam chain & sprocket failure and thin enough to have a fast enough flow rate through the small oil return passages, thus not allowing the oil to heat up and start sludging the passages and slowing the oil flow rate down and eventually causing engine failure.

Here is a short list of Mobil 1 oils not recommended for use in an MB engine that is like our 2.7L in design. Chain driven DOHC with roller bearing cams and high head temptures.

Mobil 1 SuperSyn 0W-30 SL/SJ/CF A1/B1/A5 9.7 doesn't meet 229.1 nor ACEA A2 or A3

Mobil 1 SuperSyn 5W-30 SL/SJ/CF A1/B1/A5 9.8 doesn't meet 229.1 nor ACEA A2 or A3

Mobil 1 SuperSyn 10W-30 SL/SJ/CF A1/B1/A5 10.1 doesn't meet 229.1 nor ACEA A2 or A3

These 3 oils do not meet MB spec of > 3.5 cP for high temperature high shear strength. This is pertaining to the chain & sprocket failure problem that so many people suffered.

Here is a list of Mobil 1 synthetic oils approved my MB for this type engine, only the 0w-40 is available in US as for I know for sure.

Mobil 1 TriSynthetic 5W-50, 0W-40, 5W-40, and 15w-40 for some other engines without the high head temps (100% synthetic)

This sludge problem has effected Toyota even more then the 2.7L effected Chrysler because they had at least 2 engines affected, the 1.5L 4 cyl and the 3L V6. This has been big problem with the V6's as most of those owners followed the 7500 mile service as listed in the manual with a 10w-30 oil, and most Echo owners did 3000 mile service and used 5w-20 or 5w-30 oils for some reason.

The list of company's that had a sludge problem caused by high oil temperatures and poor oil flow were VW, Toyota, MB, Honda, and Ford just to name a few.

[slammed1]

I am putting rod bearings in my 2001 2.7 Monday,the wife came home Thursday night saying she heard a knocking noise so I listened to it and determined the rear cylinder on the left bank was the culprit. I pulled it into the shop Saturday morning and pulled the pan to find a few things to my amazement.1) there was'nt any sludge builup at all 2) there was a modification to the oil pick-up that wasnt factory or even nicely done for that matter(opened up with a grinder for some reason) 3) Only the rear cylinder rod bearing had damage while the others actually didnt show much wear at all. I would have had it running again and drove it home Saturday afternoon if the parts houses would have had a bearing set.I am getting a set in the Morning(Monday) and re-assembling the bottom end.I am going ahead and replacing all the rod bearings but not the mains.I know many of you will say to rebuild the motor but even with the rod bearing with damage there was amazingly no marking on the crank journal,I lightly polished the journal and cleaned the surface real good and it is good to go.I realize this is just a patch job but it looked decent enough in the inside to run for a few thousand more miles.I will let you guys know how long it lasts. I was impressed how clean the lower end was,due to me using the Motorcraft 5w/20 on its last oil changes.

[slammed1]

bearings are in a working fine.....no more knocking,and I feel confident that it has thousands of miles left in it.

[dodgeup]

2.7 intrepid. We had engine noise dodge service said that it was because it had not been driven for awhile something about the oil not being run through the engine for awhile. Well 2 months later the timing chain is all chewed up it has less than 70 thousand miles on it.

Is there a motor that can be interchanged for this on on the 2001 intrepid?

[usg4595]

Check out the 2.7/3.2 conversion threads here in this forum. My 2001 2.7 has bent valves due to the timing chain jumping, spent a couple of weeks trying to get it running right until I figured that out. I am going to be ordering a 3.2 engine as it seems to be a bolt in.

[paulhiggs]

My 1999 2.7 ran 130K miles and was burning some oil for the last 30k but still had pretty good power. I got in late in 1999 when 16K miles on it (high for 9 months but I think it was a lease/rental car)
I always ran mine pretty hard and perhaps above the 55/65 limits. I found that the RPMs turned at 70-75 the engine ran smother and picked up better (felt a bit loaded at 55-65MPH). Round town I'd lock down to use the RPMs and stop it jumping into top gear.

I can't say that the oil was replaced even every 5000 miles, perhaps not every 10000. For that last 40K it used about a quart every 3-4 tanks of gas.

Car is deceased now, hit in the side by a blind man in a chey silverado.

Paul

[03whiteoffroad]

my girlfriend has a 99 and we bought it at 82,000miles and it already had the enigine replaced. it drove fine for about 5,000miles and it started having problems. the a/c went out, we put a new compressor in, it would make horrible grumbling noises and die when the engine was hot. we ran scans on it and everything and couldn't find anything. i work at a chrysler dealership and one of the guys that i work with started just messing around with defferent things to see if we could make it grumble, nothing worked. then the check engine light came on and it was the 02 sensors, once we replaced those it hasn't done it for a couple of months and it used to do it at least once a day. it won't fix the problem in the long run, but it runs much better. it was just a bad engine for 99. we also started running lucas oil every 3,000miles and it really helps.

[tkittykat]

O.K this is my first time, I have been reading the comments about engine going out, my questions, I just brought a 2002 intrepid with 74,000 mile on it with the dealership doing an oil change, I also got the daimler chrysler warranty for 21,000 miles or 2 years( IT SAYS POWERTRAIN CARE PLUS) , if my engine goes out don't they have to replace it, and if I use synthetic oil and get the lubrication of the timing chain will this help. PLEASE COULD SOMEONE ANSWER THIS QUESTION

[jbrown0515]

I own a 2000 Intrepid and just recently I started to have oil pressure problems when idling. I also heard what at first sounded like a rattle. The initial check showed nothing but yesterday I found out different. My rod is now knocking horribly. I spoke to several mechanics and all have told me the same thing........the 2.7 is an engineering disaster. Appearantly the engine runs hot. Dodge, from what I've been told, contracted Jasper for about 1 year to do some R & D on the problem of the engine failing. I'm not a mechanic so I don't remember exactly what they said the findings were. I guess you can purchase a new engine from Jasper and they're warrantied for 50,000 miles. I don't see the point when the value of a 2000 intrepid usually isn't as much as the cost of a new engine. My wife also owns a 2000 Intrepid and my mechanic said it's best to change the oil every 2000 miles, if not sooner. As far as Chrysler doing anything for thier 'VALUED' customers who purchased a vehicle with the wonderful 2.7, I haven't heard a thing. Let me know if you do cause I certainly don't have 4-6 grand laying around.

[tkittykat]

Thank you jbrown515, for reply back did you or your wife have a warrenty package, did they tell your wife which oil might save her engine. When you put her car on the machine to test it, they can not find anything, until it's to late.
tkittykat

[jfitch]

From everything that I've read.... the Dodge extended warranty WILL NOT replace your engine if it goes out. If something happens, they will tear down the engine and see dirty sludge, then blame that on poor maintenance which is not covered.

Since the 2.7 tends to cook the oil, synthetic definitely is the right way to go. Also... not IF, but WHEN the water pump starts to go, water will seep into the oil which causes sludge. Just keep an eye on things.... your oil level will go up and your coolant level will go down.

[dhermesc]

Since the 2.7 tends to cook the oil, synthetic definitely is the right way to go. Also... not IF, but WHEN the water pump starts to go, water will seep into the oil which causes sludge. Just keep an eye on things.... your oil level will go up and your coolant level will go down.



Part of the sludge issue arises from the water pump, Chrysler with all its foresight has seen to using the cheapest POS that it can design. The water pump will seep (small amounts makes it hardly noticable) when it gets some age on it and this waters goes straight into the oil pan. Water combined with oil and heat forms sludge - lots of it. This sludge (from the high heat or the water or both) causes the timing chain tensioners to fail, which takes out the timing chain then effectively destroys the engine. A Chrysler "tech" opens the engine and sees the sludge and pronounces it a maintenance failure. The water pump will appear fine (or marginal) and the only way you know you had antifreeze in the oil is by testing it. This is further compounded by Chrysler's 6000-mile recommend oil change interval. This gives even small amounts of water/antifreeze a long time to form sludge.

Another issue also arises from the water pump being driven by the timing chain, if the water pump goes out (remember this is a cheap POS) it can take the timing chain with it and since the 2.7 is an interference engine it will take out the pistons and heads. Combine this with the known issues of small oil pickup, delicate timing chain tensioners and high heat in the upper engine and the 2.7 turns into a grenade waiting for the pin to be pulled. So many weaknesses being designed into one engine makes it inherently unreliable especially as the miles mount.

I truly think the water pump design is the catalyst that takes out so many 2.7L engines; if sludge from poor maintenance were the only issue they'd go out earlier. Water pump failure (or seeping) isn't that uncommon in any car under a 100K, but the design of the 2.7L makes it a catastrophic failure.

[RPMLaabs]

Well, well, well. Our 2001 Intrepid recently started making some noise. Seems to me that the power steering pump is the culprit. I listened, and at first it sounded like a severe engine knock. We change the oil around every 3000 miles, the oil light had flickered in the past. We took it to the dealership, they "tried" to claim sludge until I told them I wanted to see the pan before they cleaned it. Any way it ended up being the oil pressure sending unit. That was two years ago. We have a 2.7 litre, 155,000. My daughter drives it now. I have a '99 Durango, 5.9 153,000 miles. My wife an '05 Sebring Convertible, less than 20,000, or coming up on it's 7th oil change. CHANGE YOUR OIL REGULARLY. Enough said.

[TheFix]

My son and I repaired our first 2.7 Intrepid about four years ago. We have since done another and have three awaiting repair at this time. (Actually one is a Concorde)

While I am fully aware that the 2.7s have experienced some serious failures, I am confident that they can be desirable when repaired and managed as they should have been from the begining. (In fact the Intrepid that was my son's car certainly grenaded his finances at the time).

From my experience and investigation, I believe the timing chain is central to most of the failures. I won't go into the technical aspect of what I have found as it would be meaningless to most. In fact the full extent and method of neccessary repairs has not been completely set in my mind.

I would like to have contact with individuals who have repaired their 2.7 to collect additional data on the failure in general, mileage at failure, and the progression (extent) of the failure. If you think you have useful information in this regard, please email. As and if I collect helpful data, I will post that.

I am in no way down on Dodge. I love their cars (six) and trucks (five).

TheFix

[Spicyjam]

My son and I repaired our first 2.7 Intrepid about four years ago. We have since done another and have three awaiting repair at this time. (Actually one is a Concorde)

While I am fully aware that the 2.7s have experienced some serious failures, I am confident that they can be desirable when repaired and managed as they should have been from the begining. (In fact the Intrepid that was my son's car certainly grenaded his finances at the time).

From my experience and investigation, I believe the timing chain is central to most of the failures. I won't go into the technical aspect of what I have found as it would be meaningless to most. In fact the full extent and method of neccessary repairs has not been completely set in my mind.

I would like to have contact with individuals who have repaired their 2.7 to collect additional data on the failure in general, mileage at failure, and the progression (extent) of the failure. If you think you have useful information in this regard, please email. As and if I collect helpful data, I will post that.

I am in no way down on Dodge. I love their cars (six) and trucks (five).

TheFix
I have fixed 4 of these 2.7's and would like to compare notes, as I keep seeing the same thing over and over. Please feel free to e-mail me, thanks Jim.

[TheFix]

I have sent a PM (Private Message) to you Spicyjam. I included my cell number with it. The forum rules disallow email addresses in the PMs and since you declined email contact through this forum, I have no other means of being back in touch unless you read the PM. I am inclined to think that we have something to contribute on the 2.7 problem.

TheFix

[dodgeram_chic]

As A Daimler Chrysler Certified Service Manager With 28 Years Experience On Chrysler/dodge/plymouth Vehicles At 4 Different Dealerships From Montana To Florida I Can Sum Up The So Called Sludge Problem With All Engines I Have Seen Including 2.7, 4.7, 3.9, 5.9, 5.2, 3.7 225 Slant Six, 2.2, 2.5, 3.0, 2.6, 2.4 Etc. As Far Back As The Mid Seventies In One Statement. Lack Of Proper Maintenance! Oil Changes At Regular Intervals For A Starter Is The Biggest Cause Of Sludge Build Up In Motors. In Every Case I Have Been Involved With That A Engine Failed During Or After The Powertrain Warranty Period The Current Owner Was Not Able To Come Up With Any Legal Documents Confirming His Claim Of "i Change Or Have The Oil Changed Every 3000 Miles". I Have Seen Many Attempts To Produce Bogus Or Fraudulent Records From Independent Shops Until The The Shop Owner Or Manager Is Advised He Or She May Have To Go To Court. In Most Cases The Victim Of Oil Sludging Is The Second Owner Who Purchased The Vehicle From A Used Car Lot, Auction Or Private Owner And Have No Knowledge Of The Previous Owners Maintenance Habits. You Can Blame The Problem On Everything From The Manufacturer To The Engineers That Designed The Engines To The Brand Of Oil Used. But It All Boils Down To Regular Oil Changes. Every Owner I Have Interviewed That Can Produce Documents Or Has Records In Our Computers Confirming Regular Oil Changes And Some Have Milages In Excess Of 100,000 Miles And A Variety Of All Engines Do Not Have And Have Never Had A Sludge Problem. I Myself And My Family Have Had More Chrysler/dodge Vehicles Than I Can Possibly Remember But I Can Not Remember A Single Incident Of Any Sludged Motor Problem.
I Find It Amusing The Statement " I Shut The Engine Off As Soon As I Lost Oil Pressure". Anybody With Any Mechanical Knowledge Knows The Damage To This Engine, From The Pictures, Had Been Occurring Long Before He Shut The Engine Off. I Am Tired Of Hearing The Whining And Crying Over Sludged Motors From Owners. Either Admit Your Poor Maintenance Habits Or That You Got Stuck With A Vehicle That Somebody Else Sludged Up And Fix It Or Sell It To Somebody Else And Stick Them With The Problem. Like I Always Say Pay Me Now Or Pay Me Later!

I have to SERIOUSLY disagree with you! I purchased my 1999 Intrepid from a 5 star certified Chrysler Dealer, it had only 27,000 miles on it in 2000 when I purchased it. It was a vehicle the Dealer used for a "loaner" when people needed a car while theirs was in the shop. We went to our dealer every 2,800 miles for the oil changes and regular maintenance. We have the 2.7 engine. When my timing chain broke at 56,000 miles, they blamed me for not having it maintained. I told them it was their fault then and they weren't doing their job. I have cancelled checks and copies of the receipts for the maintenance. So, you know their next response, not our problem, you are out of warranty. So, I pay out $2,700 for them to do their work, then 1,000 miles, that is right, 1,000 miles later I break down once again. This time on the side of a highway an hour and a half from home. Once again, the Dealer, not my problem, will cost you another $6,000 because you need a new engine. SO, for you to say that it was because I poorly maintained it, I agree with someone that says, you know what, you just want someone else to blame. It is a poorly constructed engine, Dodge knows it, but unfortunately, I have a $17,000 lawn ornament sitting in my yard for it. I was able to drive it for all of 2 1/2 years and have had it for 6 now. That is an expensive lawn ornament. Now, I love Dodge, don't get me wrong, we have 3 other vehicles that are Dodges. But, it aggreviates me to no end when someone sits there and says well, you didn't do this or that....you don't know me, you don't know my habits. I kept this car clean, inside out engine everything. I kept up with mine. The problem is Chrysler does have a poor engine and they haven't done anything to help me out, and that is aggreviating. Heck, I can't even get anyone to buy it, ya know why....they know they are going to have to put $6,000 into it right off the bat. Now, if Chyrsler would give me a fair price, considering it only has 57,000 miles on it, I might trade it in. But you know what, they won't. We have tried that. they said $500. Let me see.....NO. You fix it and then turn around and sell it for $7,000. Do I have STUPID stamped on my forhead.

Once again, venting, and aggreviated. If anyone does know though who or where I can turn to maybe get some assistance in the matter, I would greatly appreciate it.

[TheFix]

Dodgeram-chic

You are by no means alone. I am working on a possible fix for the problems. While I have not seen every type failure, I am seeing some common factors on a lot of them. If you would care to PM me with any details, I would be happy to know the circumstance to add to the others that I know about.

James

[Kimura]

Hello, I'm new to the forum (I'm a regular Cheers and Gears member, despite being a Dodge enthusiast :P).

My girlfriend and I recently bought a 2000 Dodge Intrepid with the seemingly infamous 2.7L V6. We paid $2,100 for the car (it was an auction). The car had 174k and has now (as of a couple days ago) 175k miles on it.

I've been reading about how the 2.7 is a problematic engine, mainly due to oil issues. Now I see that timing chains can be an issue too. I've had the car looked over once, and he said everything checked out fine except he saw oil on the engine. The thing it he said he could not find any leaks and I have not seen any leakage on the ground. He also said that he can't clean it until the weather is warmer to find out what it may be, though he admitted it may just be spilled oil.

I've looked at the engine, and I can't find this oil spillage (though I never removed the cover). Had I seen any I wouldn't have bought it. Still, the engine runs as smooth as silk, is quite and never gets hot. The transmission shifts smoothly too. I love this car...I'm just concerned about the engine...since I've heard so many horror stories.

By the way, what do you guys get for mileage? My one real gripe about the car is I have yet to get 20mpg...best I've managed so far is 17mpg.

[TheFix]

Just read your post Kimura. Let me assure you that your concern for the infamous 2.7 is not displaced. If you will follow the auctions on eBay for a few weeks you will see that the 2000 model is going for about 800 dollars when the engine fails. Less is some recent listings. These cars should be selling in the 5000 (or more) range and would be if they didn't have the reputation that haunts them.

The problem just happens almost instantly and when it does, you have serious result. Dodge doesn't have a fix for it and apparently doesn't care. The timing chain is central to the problem but isn't alone in the failure, in fact the chain could be run much longer if the tensioner were not inadequate for the application.

On your mileage, you have already got issues with something as the car will get 29 miles to the gallon.

I am up to my ears trying to come up with a permanent repair but I have not derived one as of yet. I am putting some miles on a couple of cars that I have done some experimenting with but don't have anything that I can recommend. AND incidentally, I think I can fix anything. The 2.7 may whip my tail.

If you notice the dates on the postings you will see that there aren't very many that are reporting anything other than gripes. I still would like to hear from anyone that has something positive to contribute.

James

[Kimura]

29 mpg in the real world? Wow...When I posted on C&G about the mileage, some members suggested oxygen sensors...I'm not sure though...never really worked with that stuff before. Any thoughts? MPG aside, it's been a great car so far, and the engine *knock on wood* has been great.

[dhermesc]

If I were you (Kimura) I'd pull the front of the engine apart and plan on replacing the timing chain, tensioners and water pump. To be honest I seriously doubt the ENGINE has 175,000 on it, unless this work has already been at least once.

As for your mileage, I agree 17MPG is pretty bad, especially if you are are not getting a check engine light. When your guy looked it over did he hook it up to see if the engine was throwing codes? It wouldn't be the first time someone has disconnected the check engine light to hide a problem. Unless its all city driving with a heavy foot you should od better then 17.

[loren]

is there a problem with the newer intrepids also. 2001 - 2005

[Kimura]

This thread is referring to the 2001-2005 models with the 2.7L V6.

[Kimura]

If I were you (Kimura) I'd pull the front of the engine apart and plan on replacing the timing chain, tensioners and water pump. To be honest I seriously doubt the ENGINE has 175,000 on it, unless this work has already been at least once.

As for your mileage, I agree 17MPG is pretty bad, especially if you are are not getting a check engine light. When your guy looked it over did he hook it up to see if the engine was throwing codes? It wouldn't be the first time someone has disconnected the check engine light to hide a problem. Unless its all city driving with a heavy foot you should od better then 17.

Do dealers keep records of the work they've done to vehicles? This car spent the majority of it's mileage life going to one dealership for service...I was thinking of calling them and asking if they'd worked on any of the mentioned items.

[jwr100]

New here. Read all the threads on the 2.7L problems. I have a 2001 Concord with 115,000 and no problems with anything yet. I saw a post that claims a fix was done in 01 on this engine. My mfg date is 10-00. Would my engine be part of the old 2.7L problems? My son has a 98 intrepid and just lost his engine yesterday with 90,000. REAL bad rod knock and then vibrated to a stop. Has there been any word from Chysler on what they intend to do to help us?

[jfitch]

To answer your last question first... Chrysler's not going to do anything to help. Even if you had an extended warranty, they would claim that it's YOUR fault.
My '01 2.7 was rebuilt at 114,000 miles because the water pump broke which caused the timing chain to jump. (the water pump is ran by the timing chain!). The engine also had a lot of sludge in it, so I wouldn't subscribe to the comment that the sludge problem was corrected in '01. I would say that you've been lucky so far...

[jwr100]

thanks for the info. will keep eye on this one. Really didn't want to look for new car at this time but from what i read, i think i better before it dies too!

[goldfuge]

I had a 97 Intrepid when they first came out with the 2.7 and traded it in when it had over 80K. Never had any engine issues with it. Now I have a 01 Stratus that has a 2.7 and it is curious you don't hear of this issue with those.
Just a thought

[dhermesc]

2.7 in a Stratus isn't working near as hard as the 2.7 in the heavier Intrepid.

[MuskratJames]

Also, in the month before that, I had to have the transmission input and output speed sensor replaced

I thought those tranny problems were only on that piece of garbage they bolted behind the Mitsu 3.0's in Caravans! Those tranny sensor problems sound very, very familiar. Do the 2.7's stall at random times? That was the other major issue we had with the 3.0's. Just wanted to see if maybe there was a broader, more companywide problem here...

[PhilT]

First post here.

2001 Întrepid 2.7L with nearly 177K miles (286,000 km); no engine work done yet; no major problems at all. I am planning on replacing all 3 timing chains and tensioners plus the water pump in the spring as a preventative measure.

Phil T

[jfitch]

Wow, 177k is great... What are your driving conditions and what normal maintenance have you done??

Good idea on changing the water pump and timing set... and of course the external drive belts too. The parts for the 2.7 are expensive. Just the parts that you mention will run about $600. I remember that the timing set at rockauto.com was about $100 cheaper than the local guys (for the same brand).

[PhilT]

A very high percentage of my driving is highway and I think that especially for the 2.7, that's a good thing.

I'm well aware of the cost of the parts, believe me. I've actually found a relatively cheap source of parts online so I should be able to get everything I need (including the gaskets) for well under $500.

Phil

[towga]

Does anybody know how to quiet down the roller rockers or valve chatter? There seems to be wear on both the rockers and the cams. I was wondering if just replacing the rockers would do anything.
Thanks.

[misszell]

now that the weather has been warmer my oil pressure light has been coming on.....i just bought the car and supposedly a new 2.7 engine was installed.....i have had to have two oil changes since i bought it and only use synthetic oil......my mechanic changed the oil sending unit and the problem is still there.......what's up?.... :VHOT: im bringing it back in tomorrow and he said he needs to change some wire but im scared :help: ......i don't need my engine starving of oil.......will adding an oil stabilizer like Lucas synthetic oil stabilizer help?

[dhermesc]

......i don't need my engine starving of oil.......will adding an oil stabilizer like Lucas synthetic oil stabilizer help?


Your mechanic needs to figure out if you have low oil pressure or if you have a faulty reading. If you truly have that low of oil pressure a bunch of additives are not going to do much good. I really don't see an additive doing much good (and probably some harm) for synthetic oil, especially if you are using something like Mobil 1 or Royal Purple.

[Daytrepper]

now that the weather has been warmer my oil pressure light has been coming on.....i just bought the car and supposedly a new 2.7 engine was installed.....i have had to have two oil changes since i bought it and only use synthetic oil......my mechanic changed the oil sending unit and the problem is still there.......what's up?.... :VHOT: im bringing it back in tomorrow and he said he needs to change some wire but im scared :help: ......i don't need my engine starving of oil.......will adding an oil stabilizer like Lucas synthetic oil stabilizer help?


There is an updated oil pressure sender and harness available that usually repairs the oil light. The failed oil pressure sensor is usually the cause of this.

[Don-K]

I am looking at buying a 2005 Magnum with the 2.7 engine and found the horror stories here. The Magnum fits the bill for us, but i have always owned fords. My last Dodge was a 97 stratus with th Mitsu engine, and had engine yanked out and re-sealed after a whopping 29K miles, after that and too many other repairs to mention, i swore never again. But, before that:
I have a bit of info on sludge. I acquired a hi-miles t-bird with the 5.0. After driving for a year with the oil light blinking (surely it cant be oil problem for that long), yes, 0 psi oil pressure at idle. I found a completely plugged pickup screen, sludge everywhere. Replaced pump & screen then, Cure: add Rislone for the next several oil changes. after that, oil press was 3, 6, then 7-10 psi at idle. Use a good oil filter too like a Wix or Bosch. I sold the car with 210K and replaced it with the stratus.
Any owners have issues with the 2004 & up 2.7l? thanks!

[Kimura]

Well as an update, my Intrepid's at 180k miles and the 2.7L runs beautifully. The only thing I've had to do besides oil changes was replace the fuel pump gasket. During this little repair the check engine light did come on to alert me of it, so I know it works. The engine is also original for any of those wondering. I plan to replace upper radiator hose and the belts this Monday, since the hose has small leak and the belts are probably due for it.

Next up will probably be the timing chains/water pump/tensioners. But that will be a little ways down the road.

Dodgeram_chic, if you plan to keep the car and not sell it for a pathetic 500 bucks (which is what it will go for) I'd suggest dropping a 3.2L in it. It's a solid engine with more power as a bonus...and it'll be cheaper than buying a new car. If my engine ever goes, that's what I plan to do...the car is too nice to just let it sit and rot or junk it.

[RACEREADY]

Had a problem with a 2.7 with the exhaust pipe near the pan it was overheating the oil - I got a pipe wrap online for the car - stopped the exhaust heat hitting the pan - Here it is:

"KPPERFORMANCE. COM/KPHEATSHIELD.HTML"

*** Take the space out between . and COM - them paste in browser ***

it's on the bottom of the page and it's good for 2300 degrees wraps around the pipe and attaches with Velcro.

[steelerboy27]

I've got the same problems on my 03' Stratus RT. 2.7 started knocking on start up, then at about 3500 rpm had a bottom end knock. Had the extended warranty till 85,000 and had 84,600 when I took it to the shop. The shop replaced the timing chain for the start up knock and then called to say it was finished, when I got the call I asked what the bottom end knock was and they didn't even check it! They finally checked it and found that the engine was junked, now for the good part. They told my wife that they couldn't make a call on the engine and that Chrysler had to send down an "official inspector" to make the call as to what the cause was. That was all we knew until today(3 weeks later), my wife called to check the status of our car and the service manager was very nice informing her that there was a brand new engine sitting in the shop that just needs to be installed in our car!!! I was extremely please to hear this, I thought for sure they were gonna screw us over, especially since we only had like 400 miles left on our extended warranty. PPPHHHEEEWW!!!! :rck: :rck: :rck:

[FKMac]

I just bought a 2001 Intrepid 2.7L engine just last week then after I bought it I learned of the engine failure problem with the oil sludge. The car already has 117,000 miles and you hear of other Intrepid's engines going out way before that. So far I don't think it shows any problems with sludging up. If I start using synthetic oil in it now will it be o.k. or is it to late to safe the engine? What should I do?

[Daytrepper]

I just bought a 2001 Intrepid 2.7L engine just last week then after I bought it I learned of the engine failure problem with the oil sludge. The car already has 117,000 miles and you hear of other Intrepid's engines going out way before that. So far I don't think it shows any problems with sludging up. If I start using synthetic oil in it now will it be o.k. or is it to late to safe the engine? What should I do?


Best thing to do is pull a valve cover, and the oil pan and see if there is any sludge in it. If so, change the oil pickup tube, timing chain and water pump, run it on Mobil 1 after that and you will be good.

[PhilT]

If you use the right oil and filter and change it frequently enough - and the PCV valve - you could get 200K out of that new engine.

[PhilT]

I also think that if I were in your shoes, I would seriously consider doing two full cycles of AutoRx treatments on the engine. With the internal conditions of the engine unknown, an AutoRx cleaning (2 of them) will be very cheap insurance.

The recommendation for internal inspection of the engine is a good one. Replacing the Main timing chain and tensioner and water pump is also worthwhile.

You can start using synthetic oil without any cause for concern.


http://www.auto-rx.com/

[mountainrider19]

First time poster I am...recently I purchased a 2002 Stratus (yeah I know...an Intrepid forum) with the 2.7L DOHC. On the day I purchased it ~1 month ago, I noticed on the way out the door to a 2000 mile trip, that the net was rife with postings re: 2.7L blowups due to sludge buildup. I quickly changed to synthetic oil (52,000 miles) and have put 4200 miles on it....runs like a champ and we really like it. I realize the Stratus is lighter...may save our ass...but I'm wondering if adding a supplementary oil cooler and tranny cooler (understand IT has probs too) would make a difference. Please...your thoughts...I really don't want to change to a Taurus or something thus! I thank you!

[jpdead 2.7]

i followed the proper channels thru a company called isg were Daimler Chrysler set up some program to help hush!...i mean help pay for there faulty 2.7 engine.well after 2 attempts to reach a reasonable offer they are only giving me $2800 towards the replacement of the old motor.With an estimated cost of $5700 it still leaves me with a balance of $2900 to pay :help: I guess it is better then nothing

[dannybeuck]

I threw a rod threw the block at 120k oil sludge city junk 2.7 now its rebuilt and 3k later it wont even start no spark in 1,4,5,6, ok i decided there should be a lawsuit for building such a POS

[jpdead 2.7]

there is a company called accurate engines they sell the 2.7 rebuilt long block with all the necesery upgrades for $2,250+ $300 core charge plus $299 for shipping.And if u go thru the proper channels Diamler Chrysler( pos company)set a up a program to help people pay for this faulty product....it is an admition of guilt in my book..@#$@#% :VHOT:

they are giving me almost $2,900 for my troubles an i only had my car for 81 days(2000 dodge intrepid)

[shadowfax]

Glad to hear they are helping you a bit. I am planning to aply to them myself for assistance.
I just had the Accurate Engines 2.7 put in my car.Engine ordered last week, arrived Monday, installed Yesterday, Picked it up tonight. Running beautiful. Just have to get thought the break in period and away we go.

I sure hope Dodge will help me out with this. I can not afford this at all. Having a big time problem trying to find a way to repay the friend who got this done for me.

[kstonich]

I also am an owner of a 2000 intrepid 2.7. I love driving this car but the repair costs are very high. I drive 95% highway miles have used full synthetic and change it religiously. At 160,000 miles the oil pressure light came on, longe story short oil pump, timming belt tensioner and 1100$ later good to go.Ran another 50,000 and the valve clatter has come back.Don't know weather to invest again or buy a new engine. I previously owned,and still do a Chevy Z71 350 motor with 265000 miles and still running strong. My toyota had over 400,00 miles on it when I sold it. So I do take car of my vehicles.
I have read in previous posts about assistance to buy new motors or even where to buy the new motors at. Could jpdead 2.7 or anyone else give up the details on what you had to do to accomplish this feat.Need to get the ball rolling. And thanks for all of your help

[banker260]

I had 170000 miles on my 1998 Intrepid when it went. I ran synthetec in it except for when it actually went out. I rebuilt the engine myself. There wasn't any sludge at all. The only three things wrong were the rear main bearing failed, the rubber bead seal of the metal water pump gasket was coming appart and the water pump impeller had migrated which in turn wore down about 30% of the blade. I did have add coolant in it about a week before it went out. The cylider and rings showed no wear at all. I changed the water pump, bearings, crank shaft, oil pump and installed the new design oil pump pick-up tube.
A worn or leaking water pump will cause overheating and cook the oil The cooked oil will then plug the oil passage ways to tensioner causing the chain to break. The hot oil, possibly contaminated with antifreeze, will no longer be capable of properly lubricating the bearings.
My recomendation is use mobil 1 synthetic, replace the water pump at intervals similar to timming belts, and it wouldn't hurt to change the oil pick-up tube while in there, if you have the older style.
There are some issues I have found with switching to synthetic. It may use oil until the engine breaks in to it, about 10k miles. I guess the oil molecules are smaller or it may have to do with the oil cleaning the engine out. Also, the filter will have to be changed more frequently, untill the engine is cleaned out. My oil light would flicker at idle until I changed the oil filter but don't wait until this happens. It may also be a good idea to use engine flush before changing over.

[af5j]

Can anyone offer any info on a 2000 Intrepid 2.7 ? Car has 88,0000k on it. Here's the problem. Changed my oil approx. three weeks ago. Car is running fine at this point. Then, a couple of days ago I notice the oil light flickering when idling. The next day the engine starts knocking but only when it's hot, when it's cold there is no knocking sound. Of course first thing I do is check the oil level and it was full. Took the car to my mechanic he said the oil is not getting to the top of the engine. I asked him if it could be the oil pump he said he wouldn't know until he started ripping the engine apart which would include tons of labor. F*** that. He said that he could drop the oil pan and clean the screen out and see if anything is plugged up for $360. Can't figure out why it doesn't knock when it's cold??? Viscosity change? Was thinking of changing the oil to Mobile 1 15W 50. Need to get a second opinion. Any suggestions???

[Kimura]

Is it a loud knock or a more quiet one that you won't hear say, under throttle?

[af5j]

When it's idling you can definatly here it

[PhilT]

Rod knock (if that's what it is) accompanied by low oil pressure (oil light flicker) is a pretty sure sign of a failing connecting rod bearing. However oil light flicker at idle, on it's own, is a very common and minor problem on these engines, when it's caused simply by a failing oil pressure sending unit. Both of these conditions can happen with a perfectly good oil pump in the engine.

Have your 'mechanic' remove the oil sending unit, install a good quality pressure there and measure oil pressure at idle and at 2000 rpm. Compare the numbers against factory spec. That will tell you the condition of the oil pump and it will take the 'mechanic's" guess work out of it. Also, simply remove the oil filler cap and see for yourself whether oil is getting to the top of the engine or not (while it's running).

[campostimas]

Does Anyone Know Where The Transmision Fluid Presure Sensor Is Located?

[wellsmotorsport]

Sludge can be formed several ways. One way is to have moisture combine with the oil and not be properly evacuated by the PCV system when the engine reaches operating tempature. Poor maintainance is another.

On a 2.7 I think the problem lies in failing water pumps. If you have ever seen the front cover removed on this engine, you will see that a leaking front water pump seal will empty into the only place it can go..... the oil pan. Coolant in the oil can do a lot of damage including premature bearing failure.

[hemimech]

On a 2.7 I think the problem lies in failing water pumps. If you have ever seen the front cover removed on this engine, you will see that a leaking front water pump seal will empty into the only place it can go..... the oil pan. Coolant in the oil can do a lot of damage including premature bearing failure.

On the contrary if you look closely at the design of the 2.7l water pump you will see a cool feature. Just below the pump shaft is a chamber that has a cup plug pressed in from the bottom. This chamber collects any leaking coolant at a mid point in the seal assembly. Then while you have the pump off of the block you will see a ¼” hole that is a passage leading from that chamber out to the atmosphere just below the water inlet housing. So if you suspect a 2.7L water pump is failing there will be a trail of coolant outside the block just below the lower radiator hose. The only way coolant could get into the crankcase from the water pump would be from a catastrophic failure such as the pump shaft breaking off.

[PhilT]

Not true. I just had my water pump fail at 217K miles. It dumped approx 3 quarts of coolant into the crankcase without so much as a drip outside the engine. Upon disassembly I found the weep hole passages plugged solid with plastic shavings from the impeller tips. So much for any early warning from the weep hole system.

I got lucky : the engine probably ran no more than a few minutes at low speed when the outboard seal failed and dumped coolant into the oil. I apparently managed to avoid any bearing damage. I had it towed home, took it apart and replaced the water pump plus all the chains and all the tensioners. It's now approaching 220K miles and still runs like new.

On the contrary if you look closely at the design of the 2.7l water pump you will see a cool feature. Just below the pump shaft is a chamber that has a cup plug pressed in from the bottom. This chamber collects any leaking coolant at a mid point in the seal assembly. Then while you have the pump off of the block you will see a ¼” hole that is a passage leading from that chamber out to the atmosphere just below the water inlet housing. So if you suspect a 2.7L water pump is failing there will be a trail of coolant outside the block just below the lower radiator hose. The only way coolant could get into the crankcase from the water pump would be from a catastrophic failure such as the pump shaft breaking off.

[hemimech]

Not true. I just had my water pump fail at 217K miles. It dumped approx 3 quarts of coolant into the crankcase without so much as a drip outside the engine. Upon disassembly I found the weep hole passages plugged solid with plastic shavings from the impeller tips. So much for any early warning from the weep hole system.

I got lucky : the engine probably ran no more than a few minutes at low speed when the outboard seal failed and dumped coolant into the oil. I apparently managed to avoid any bearing damage. I had it towed home, took it apart and replaced the water pump plus all the chains and all the tensioners. It's now approaching 220K miles and still runs like new.

I’m not sure why your claiming my is statement is “Not true”. The topic of this post is engine sludge. My point is that a seeping seal won’t leak into the crankcase over long term & cause sludge. If it’s a just a seal failure it will weep out of the hole. What you had was a catastrophic failure where the impeller slowly migrated off the pump shaft. The extra forces induced into the shaft lead to the failure the bearing & seal assembly. I have seen this before where the pump housing actually breaks as a result of the impeller being ground up (that one had around 180K miles & the timing jumped on the rear bank and crashed the valves$$$). At any rate a failure like this dumps the coolant into the crankcase fast and obviously isn’t causing sludging. I’m glad to hear you shut yours off before any major damage occurred. It’s also good to see how many miles you have on yours. I’m only at 90K on mine after six years so hopefully there is still a lot of life in her.

[pgitta]

I find it hilarious that there are those who slam Chrylsler for not "taking responsibility" for an alleged defect, and in the same breath advise people to patch a car up and "sell it quick" and let the next poor slob deal with it.

Yeah, Chrysler are the crooks. Pathetic.

Remind me to never buy a car from you.

[BOBCZYK]

Got a 2000 Intrepid with 134,000. It never cost me a dime except normal maintenance and upkeep. I change oil every 4000 with filter. 10W40w Penzoil. Luv this car.

[car5car]

I love 2.7 engines. I just bought 04 Intrepid for my wife with 2.7 engine. It is my second, first was 03. Some engine machinist told me how to keep engines healthy and nobody knows that trick including dealer mechanics.

[BOBCZYK]

I got a 2000 Intrepid with the 2.7. It's got close too 140,000 with no problems whatsoever. It still goes 3000 miles without adding any oil,and runs like a sewing machine. Penzoil 10w30w and cheap Fram filters every 4000 miles work for me.

[LamaMonster]

my 01 Intrepid with the 2.7L had 140,000 miles with zero problems. I have had it since it had 13K. Never had to do anything to it. at 141K it started running rough so I checked the oil and it was full of water. After doing some research it turned out the water pump had gone out. My dad replaced the water pump for me (he is retired) and it runs great now except the timing chain was making some noise, and putting in some STP oil treatment stuff in it and it runs as quiet as ever. Hoping to put another 100K on it.

[quills]

I guess we are lucky we have a 99 with a 2.7 with 150K and it runs and drives perfect, the only problem is some idiot hit us 2 weeks ago and we're afraid they're going to total it. So we found another 99 with 200k on it, we bought it but it wouldn't start, brought it home put it in the garage and let it warm up. After cleaning the battery terminals and checking the connections on the crankshaft sensor and cam sensor it fired right up runs like a top. I'm changing the oil and filter tommorrow night but I really can't complain about this engine like i said maybe we got lucky.

[BOBCZYK]

That old 2.7 justs want,s too serve you.:rck:

[Country2011]

I have a 99 Intrepid with 210K mile 2.7L and mine still runs fine, the only problem I have is corrosion on terminals, and people like to hit it. But I just change the oil as often as I can afford to and it keeps going. I guess we're both pretty lucky

[Kimura]

Well I Wednesday my 196,000 mile Intrepid is going to be opened up and they're gonna have a look at the timing chains. Assuming there's play, then that's been the cause of the recent problems, and assuming it's not full of sludge, I'm going to have the chains replaced....which should hopefully mean that it will last a while longer. Up until December the car had no engine problems besides burning some oil, so it's been good I'd say.

[BOBCZYK]

Ya Country2011 I can relate to those battery cable corrosion problems. I found that not only the obvious "no crank" problem, but the vehicle will also just shut down on the road when corrosion gets so bad it can't get enouph voltage to the computer.

[clif]

hi, my name is cliff and i've aquried a 2000 intrepid with an ambient temp. sensor voltage to high. could you please shed some lite on how i might be able tofix this problem?

[clif]

Hello my name is clif, I was wonderingif you would be able to shed some light on my problem of an ambient temp. sensor voltage too high.Would youhave any ideas on this for me?:rck:

[Country2011]

I also change mine as close to every 3000mi as possible, use only Castrol sludge preventative oil, use oil additives to prevent and eliminate sludge buildups, and I use a fuel additive to clean out the fuel system. By doing this I've got my 99 intrepid with the 2.7 running strong at 210K+ miles.

[James E]

It would be interresting to set up a database of engine failures and see what factors contribute to this apparently widespread problem. I would be interrested to see if the area of the country (cooler climates) as well as the type of oil were major factors.

I know this is Dodge country, but does anyone know if the 3.2 engine swapout will fit in a 2002 Sebring convertible?

[hemimech]

I know this is Dodge country, but does anyone know if the 3.2 engine swapout will fit in a 2002 Sebring convertible?

James see post at http://www.dodgetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195147

[mayhemiwa]

I have a 2000 dodge intrepid 2.7 engine and I had some sludge in the engine when i had purchased the car i had the maxlife semi-synetic in the engine and about four weeks later i had got an engine flush and after that i put the maxlife full synethic back in there but i still see a little bit of sludge in my oil cap so what be the best way to maintain the engine and how can i keep the engine running without changing it out for a 3.5 engine

[StandOnCliff]

Put a new water pump in it. The seal in the back of water pumps are known to go bad. Most engines this is no problem other then a coolant leak on the ground. The 2.7 was designed that the back of the water pump goes internally into the engine. When the seal goes bad the coolant starts mixing with the oil causing sludge. This design is the biggest reason most of these engines are going bad.

[mayhemiwa]

well i haven't been having to many problems but there isn't that much sludge coming in the oil cap and i'm going to replace the water pump and timing chain i'm at 90,000 miles but it's all highway so it still rides like a champ so i got 10,,000miles left before i get there but i might swap it out once i hit 200,00miles so that my goal but all i use is maxlife high mileage full synthetic oil every 3000miles but i will have to do my transmission fliud and filter replacement also

[mayhemiwa]

my intrepid started knocking at 91,090 miles i tried everything to keep her running and i want another intrepid but with a 3.5 ho

[mayhemiwa]

my intrepid 2.7 engine started knocking but the mechanic is going to try and fix it but this going to be a project for me and a new start upgrades my first upgrade will be a engine swap out the 2.7 will be replaced for a 3.5 high output

[spiker59]

I have been selling Dodge Chrysler Jeep products for 28 years. I do believe in frequent oil changes although I must admit that my 2000 Dodge Caravan has been abused a little. If it blew up tomorrow I would not blame it at all. I have seen 318 engines and 4.0 liter engines never get the oil changed and not blow up. Chrysler always built good durable engines. They did have some head gasket problems with early Neon engines that gave them a bad wrap. After they came up with a good steel gasket to replace them, they would run a ton of miles.

I have sold many Intrepids over the years. The good old 3.3 and 3.5 engines would run FOREVER!! I have seen people with 2.7 engines that take very good care of their car lose their engine prematurely. Intrepids are great cars otherwise. It seems like people that do 90 percent 70mph highway driving dont have near the problems with them. As a matter of fact i know people that have driven 200000 plus miles on them before they finally blow. It is a shame Chrysler does not seem to want to acknowledge that there is any problem. Chrysler takes on the same attitude that the 28 year certified service manager does.

[RobRamAZ]

Dodge came out in 2004 and said that they were making a small redesign of the 2.7. The current model has undersized oil passages. If you are running regular oil, I highley recomend that you do an engine flush every 7500 - 10000 miles. If you have run synthetic from the start and change filter often, you should be good. I f you have been running OIL and not syn, I highly recomend that you go to a blend and a lower wieght like 5w20.
DONT USE OIL ADDITIVES they make the issue worse.

[RobRamAZ]

Hey counrty2011, the only sludge free oil is not oil at all it synthetic. Its too late for you of you have over 15,000 on the ticker. Syn tech has gone soo far passed that of oil...I would never uses oil in any motor anymore. It really not more exspensive either, I have a good friend who is a chemist for a patrolem co..that dont make motor oil. He runs his syn oil to 9,000 miles, but he changes filter every 3,000 and has the oil condition checked...by an airplane shop.

[greason]

Sit down shut up and hold on!!
I've just had a good cup of coffee and I'm gonna lay it on the line
The 2.7 intrepid engine runs too f***ing hot. I bet if you look up the specs on that engine you will find a 195F thermostat in it. Now let me sidetrack for a moment. When oil gets so blaack that it cant be seen through on the dip stick it means that IT IS/WAS DOING THE JOB THAT IT WAS DESIGNED TO DO namely - hold the contaminants in dispersion aaaannndddd hear me .... A STABLE DISPERSION . NOOOOWWWWW when filthy black oil gets too hot (275F or more) like it does in the trep, it can no longer hold the contaminants (soot etc) in a stable dispersion aaaannnnndddd the contaminants will PRECIPITATE out on the most available surface causing an irreversable sludge build up.
Furthermore as these residues precipitate out they will plug the PCV valve which will causes an eventual failure of the PCV system . We hear of many trep owners with oil squirting out the dip stick hole and that is caused by a blocked PCV system. When the PCV is blocked off you can expect approx 1/2 cup of water per day being condensed in the crankcase. Dirty black engine oil will not cause sludge as long as it is not overheated. This dirty oil also contains a small amount of water which enhance the soot dispersion properties of dirty oil (cool dirty oil). When the dirty oil is heated to 275F and beyond (some internal engine surfaces might be reaching over 700F)the water content of the oil will severly decrease thus causing the soot etc to precipitate out of the normal dispersion state. In other words, very hot oil can not hold as much soot contaminants as cold oil can. This brings us to the million dollar question: where does the sludge come from? It comes from clean oil!!! that is correct. If you overheat clean oil to about 700F it will breakdown in to it's primary elements hydrogen and carbon. Some of these breakdown chemicals are more oil attractive than water attractive but as the breakdown continues there will be more and more compounds which are water attractive because the hydrogen /carbon bonds are broken and the water molecules will now be more atrtractive to the carbon chains.

So as water condenses in the crankcase from a failed PCV it will ATTRACT the contaminants from the dirty oil aaaannnndddd at the same time the overheated dirty oil will REJECT it's contaminants and thro them out of the dispersive state.

Some have come on this thread squarely blaming dodge owners for not changing the oil enough - that is only partly true. The real reason is that the trep engine and some others are doing what the chemists call "destructive distillation" If you don't belive me than take a dish of, say, penzoil and heat it over a small hot plate outside (WEAR PROTECTIVE GOGGLES)-you will have a pot of sludge in no time as the oil breaks down.

MY recommendation to trep owners is too take out the thermostat immediately (for hot summer driving or towing) This will most likely thro a code to the computer but it should not hurt engine performance at all.