I'm new to this forum but have had great luck on others. So I just purchased a 1974 Plymouth Voyager 1/2 ton van with the 360 and auto tranny. It's and old 15 passenger raft van. The van ran when I brought it home, but since then it doesn't start. I've replaced lots of tune-up parts. Cap, rotor,plugs and wires, ballast resistor, starter solenoid, egr value, air cleaner, fuel filter, I think thats it. It has gas in the hole, spark at the plugs, I've had a friend doublecheck firing order on the cap, and check Top dead center on number 1 and rotor position. It will turn over sometimes, but soon after it starts to turn, it cuts out and won't turn over at all by the key, but will turn over if I manual jumped the starter or the starter solenoid. IT will turn over at this point BUT will not fire off at all. So not much left to replace maybe to ECU or ???? I'm stumped Please :help:
Dodgevanman
03-02-2007, 06:51 AM
I would venture to say that you either have a problem with the ignition switch or starter relay. Both of which are relatively cheap to replace.
Here's the starter relay:
stev
03-02-2007, 07:36 AM
Nate, is that part located up near the battery like the Dodge/Plymonth cars of that era?
cryslr
03-02-2007, 10:52 AM
Thanks for the replies,
I've relplaced the starter relay but not the ignition switch. Can I check the ignition switch some how?? I've already drop some money into this without any solution. I was thinking maybe the Electronic spark control unit. I've seen spark but don't know if it's big enough.
Thanks again.
Dodgevanman
03-02-2007, 12:10 PM
Nate, is that part located up near the battery like the Dodge/Plymonth cars of that era?
Not really...it's kinda to the left of the battery down below the brake booster.
Dodgevanman
03-02-2007, 12:13 PM
Pull the ignition switch and check the wiring at the connector for any burnt or corroded connections. Also above the battery is the bulkhead connector that all the underhood wires pass through. These were notorious for corrosion and burnt wires.
B-300
03-02-2007, 12:44 PM
It's up near the battery, on the firewall near the edge.
To verify the starter motor is good, put it in park and short between th large stud and the middle (funny looking) terminal pictured above. (Careful not to short to ground) If the starter works and doesn't cut out the starter motor is good and the problem is the relay, switch or wiring.
If the starter cuts out, it's the problem... do the same test at the starter motor to make sure the wires are good to that point also.
One of push-on terminals goes to the neutral start switch (orange) the other to the ignition switch (green). In Park and Neutral the orange wire should be grounded.
Take off the green wire and short it to the large stud or battery, this will test the relay and neutral start switch also.
Note: The starter relay must be well grounded or it won't function correctly.
--B-300--
cryslr
03-07-2007, 08:42 PM
Thanks for the Help but no luck so far. Ignition switch checks out and so does the and start relay is new well grounded and working. The coil has been changed as well. I get good spark at the cap and plugs. It turns over fine so I'm stumped. Also I check fire wall wire bulk head and it looks good. What I'm I missing?? I did check the firing order and postion of the rotor it's points at the carb at TDC 1. No coughing or firing at all.
Thanks for the Help,
Jason
Dodgevanman
03-08-2007, 06:59 AM
You have spark obviously. Now dump a bit of fuel down into the carb. and see if she fires.
BTW, post pics of your Voyager..not many of those around and I also invite you to check out vannin.com
cryslr
03-08-2007, 11:41 AM
Well checked that already. Poured fuel down the carb, changed the filter. Toke the fuel hose lose, fuel is following. Looked in the carb fuel is shooting in. I'll take some pics of the van and post them here soon. I real like the van it ran good and shifted hard when it was running. Its two tone Cooper with a white stripe.
Thanks, Jason
Dodgevanman
03-08-2007, 11:45 AM
Your getting spark and fuel and she won't fire? Now I'm stumped. :(
Dadof6
03-08-2007, 12:24 PM
Cryslr,
When you replaced the rotor cap, was the rotor at all loose to where it could have possibly been turned? If your getting spark and fuel you should get fire unless they are not in the cylinder at the same time. Will it spit or sputter at all?
B-300
03-08-2007, 12:59 PM
1. Does the rotor align to the #1 sparkplug wire when the crankshaft dampner marks are at #1... If it's off you could have a bad timing gear that slipped a few tooths or someone may have had the plug wires off by in the past.
2. Does the rotor turn when the engine is cranked... if not the timing gear/chain are most likely broken.
--B-300--
cryslr
03-13-2007, 09:43 PM
AN update: Well got my repair manual today and checked the electrical ingition system again with the tests outlined in the book. Everything seems to check out fine. I did find the distributor cap is touching the rotor when cranked over. Not much but if I put my hand on the cap I feel it drag evertime around. Checked for a flooded carburetor by disconnecting fuel line to fuel pump and cranked over with no start still. Even put a little oil in each clyinder to lube the valves, rings and to increase compression. No luck. Also checked spark plug wires to #1 cylinder rotor alignment with crankshaft marks. When at #1 it is about 1/2 to an 1 inch past 10 after. So maybe it jumped time? It's not of by much. Any help.
Jason
Dadof6
03-13-2007, 10:29 PM
If I understand correctly, your timing mark is 1/2 to 1" past 10degrees. That is ALOT. Your timing could be more then 20* past TDC. It will very likely not fire at that point. One would think that it should still sputter some, depending on timing angle. I would need to consult my manual, or someone here probably knows of hand, what the proper timing is for your van but it is usually +/- 5* from TDC. Some engines are fired before TDC and some slightly after. Being new to Dodges, I do not know right off.
Dadof6
03-13-2007, 10:40 PM
One other thought, and I have only seen this when an engine has had more done then you described, The distributor could be 180 degrees out of phase. I.e. you could be trying to fire on the exhaust stroke and not the compression. If you have a damaged gear this could happen but usually only happens when the rotor has been pulled and not properly reinstalled. You would need to pull the valve cover for the #1 cylinder and watch to see which valve is opening and closing right before TDC to ensure you are TDC on the compression stroke.
cryslr
03-16-2007, 01:48 AM
Well done some more timing lines and rotor checking and I think she skipped a tooth or two on the timing chain. Got a upgraded set for a truck or something for $40. Putting it in tomorrow weather permitting. Any tips or tricks on a 360 timing chain change out??
Thanks Jason
Dodgevanman
03-16-2007, 07:10 AM
It's pretty straight forward...I recommend you replace the water pump while you're pulling it apart. Check the condition of the harmonic balancer too...if you notice any of the rubber sticking out or missing replace it as well.
I always buy a complete gasket kit from Felpro. Comes with a new timing cover gasket, water pump gasket, front crank seal, and oil pan front seal and side pieces. The good kit comes with a "speedi-sleeve" for the harmonic balancer. This give the new crank seal a nice smooth surface to ride on.
B-300
03-16-2007, 02:32 PM
At least clean (degrease) the front of the engine so dirt doesn't fall into the oil pan. Mark the belt(s) and if you have a camera take a few pictures to help with reassmbly. This really helps for those with A/C, P/S and AIR, especially if your new to dodges. Good luck.
--B-300--
cryslr
03-17-2007, 11:43 AM
Well the jobs done other than a broken brake line from the master clylinder and a broken tranny cooling line. They were very rust to begin with and didn't stand the moving. The old timing gear was total stripped of it's plastic teeth. I used the double roller gear set and chain. Everything went well and it started right up after it was all back together. But what do I do about the broken lines. I doubt they have replacement at the local parts store. Can I get the tubing with fittings and bend it myself?
Thanks for all the help.
Dodgevanman
03-18-2007, 09:37 AM
Yes..you'll have to bend and flare you own new lines. You will need a double-flaring kit like this one. Be advised that Chrysler used different sized fittings on some of the brake lines from the factory. You can either reuse these fittings or buy adapters to utilize the fittings that come standard on the new brake lines. The exact sizes escape me right now.
