Started having starting issues 1 week ago with the '02 Caravan Sport. Van is difficult to start when cold (Minnesota). Will start once throttle pedal is depressed but runs rough--sounds as if missing--for a moment then improves. Once warm, no trouble starting. I pulled the plugs and replaced them with new Champ platinum plugs (all 6, including back 3 :VHOT: !), new wires, oil and filter change, new air filter and sprayed TBI with cleaner--quite dirty. Problem persists. Prior to learning how to pull codes (using ig. switch/trip odo), I disconnected battery in an effort to "reset" computer. Only code I pull now is 1684 (battery discont. within last 50 starts). Any suggestions? Van has 72,000 miles on it.
Thx,
po
PO1973
12-12-2006, 11:49 PM
cleaned the TBI again, removed the throttle body, started taking solenoid apart but held up. Put it all back together, checked spark on wires, appears to be intermitant miss on #6 cylinder--then my timing light lead snapped apart and no longer works. Possible coil pack issue?? I've read CBP Engineers' account and sounds similar. still tough starting, need to floor throttle, smells of fuel/rich condition. Stammers when accelerating until warm, then runs fine. Will post more as time allows...
Replaced:
plugs
wires
cleaned throttle body
air cleaner
possible culprits:
Coil Pack
EGR
TPS
IAC
PO1973
12-13-2006, 10:42 PM
Priced out a TPS:
Autozone: $29
Napa: $19
Picked one up at Napa and installed it. As long as the throttle body was removed, I decided to pull the IAC relay solenoid. Pretty carbon-e. Sprayed the living hell out of that component after removal (T25 Torx head) and put it back together. Put in the new TPS on but had to recycle the old gasket. Not too bad, put it back together and buttoned the intake back up. Double checked plug wires and plug gap--A-OK. Started van, didn't have to give any throttle this time. Ideled at 800 rpms but was very touchy (still) with acceleration/throttle. As I backed the van out of the garage it stalled. I fired it up again and it was a smoother. I took it around the block and it seems to have the pep back. BUT can't tell if this is the real deal fix or not yet, I've got the van outside so it'll cool down and I'll see how it starts in the morning. Will post an update then for anyone who is interested, come on back around 8am CDT Thursday 12/14!!!!
I should mention that when I was working on the van, it had sat outside in 35 degree weather (F) for 3.5 hours. Coolant gauge read cold. I am cautiously optimistic.
PO1973
12-14-2006, 09:03 AM
tried firing up the van this am but it still hesitates and required some throttle. Looks like need some professional help here. I'll keep it updated. I'm sure there have been some others with this problem, will try to help you out once I get this figured out.
PO1973
12-14-2006, 07:25 PM
well, I made an appt. to see the dodge dealer but can't get it in until Monday.
I apparently have a 3.3 engine that does NOT have an EGR valve. The connection point on top of the plenum has a cover on it and no egr. I took readings on secondary ig. everything seemed within range. 5-6 terminals were slightly less than 1-2 and 3-4. Couldn't get a read on the primary ig resisntance because I couldn't get the clip that connects the connection off :mad: . If anyone has any thoughts, they'd be much appreciated.
Once again, the starting/acceleration issue seems to be resolved once the engine is up to temp. It feels like the timing is lagging behind but I can't find any vacuum lines with holes/disconnected. This issue really came out of the blue 1 1/2 weeks ago; prior to that, no issues whatsoever.
pat
mfahey
12-15-2006, 04:47 PM
It sounds as if the coolant temperature sensor is telling the computer that the engine is warmed up at all times which would explain the problem when the engine is actually cold. This would cause the mixture to be too lean during warmup and make the van run as if there were no choke(which it obviously doesn't have but you get the idea).
PO1973
12-16-2006, 02:34 PM
I picked up a new sensor at NAPA for $7. Will install shortly. What a pain to remove the power steering container. removed 2 bolts then had to access 10mm from back, lift off. plug for electrical coil is a pain, too. I tested coil, seems to be some discrepancy between 1,2 5,6 vs. 3,4. I think 3-4 is 50% resistance of the other 2 combinations (primary ignition) so maybe the coil is an issue? Can't get one for 5 days and $80 so can't test that part swap--yet. I'll swap coolant sensors and see where that gets me.
PO1973
12-16-2006, 03:41 PM
Got the unit in and everything put back together. The van had been sitting for approx. 20 hours. I still had to depress throttle before started. However, it seems as though it didn't hesitate 'as long' as previously. Took the van around the block, didn't seem to have any problem. Still can't figure out the reluctance to start. Good performance from coolant temp sensor could have been it's relative 'warmth' prior to install. Currently 30 F outside. Updates in future.
Replaced:
plugs
wires
cleaned throttle body
air cleaner
TPS
cleaned IAC
doesn't appear to have EGR
possible culprits:
Coil Pack??
mfahey
12-17-2006, 09:39 AM
I admit I'm not as up on fuel injected engines as I used to be on carbureted ones so take what I say with a slight grain of salt.
I think the IAC comes into play even more when the engine is cold. I know you said that you cleaned it but perhaps there is a diagnostic you can perform. The fact that you have to depress the throttle to get it to start might indicate that that is the only way for the engine to get air when being started.
Our library has a complete set of Mitchell's so that might be a source for you to see if it has the IAC diagnostic procedure.
PO1973
12-17-2006, 01:20 PM
seems like it runs smoother after starting, but still had to depress pedal to get running. Also, until temp is up above 'cold' level, hard time getting to "go",like it's not getting enough fuel or something. I've got an appt. with the dodge guys tomorrow am. will drop off tonight so they can experience symptoms 'cold' as I do. Will post more info tomorrow.
pat
PO1973
12-18-2006, 12:22 PM
Loaded the 2 kids into the second car and headed to the dealership last night to leave vehicle overnight so techs could 'experience' symptoms firsthand. Received an email confirmation that I should be at the dealer at 745 am and that a rental-replacement-loaner would be available. Got to the dealer this morning at 750 am. Was told to bring the van inside; I explained that it MUST be left outside in order for the van to exhibit the symptoms I've written about (see above postings). Finally, I was ready to take posession of my rental which I was told would be ready at the time of the appointment. The "service advisor" told me that there was no such record indicating I was in need of a rental. I told her I have an email VERYIFYING this. She said they don't handle rentals and that she would see what could be done.
I said, "I requested a minivan (similar to the one in the shop) with the integrated child seats. My wife and 2 kids are in an idling car in your parking lot (25 degrees)."
She responds that she will see what could be done. About 15 minutes later, a young man pulls up in a minivan and says he'll take me to the renal agency...... 1/2 block away!! I tell him "I could have walked this in 3 minutes!" He says, "You could have, but at AVIS, we'll pick you up!"
After all the paperwork is signed and dated, I find out that the minivan I requested (which wasn't ready in the first place) actually didn't have the child seats as I had requested. At this point, I told him I have no need for a vehicle that will cost me $10 MORE per day while actually accomplishing LESS than what I need it to do. I left about 15 minutes later with a Ford Focus. I'm awaiting word from the dealer on what is causing my driveability issues. More to come..... :crazy: MFer
PO1973
12-18-2006, 02:04 PM
They have got the culprit: upstream oxygen sensor is bad. Didn't tell me if was heater/etc. I said "is it covered on our extended warranty?"
YES IT IS.
Will cost me $200 deductible but that it. Will update upon learning of final details and driveability.
pat :WHT:
PO1973
12-19-2006, 12:57 PM
The van fired right up this morning with temps of 23 F at startup. No sputtering, rich-smelling exhaust, rough idle, etc. Ended up costing me $200 for this fix which was the "UPSTREAM O2 SENSOR". If you've got symptoms similar to what have been described in the above postings, check this out, it worked for me.
:rck: :rck: ROCK OUT MAN!! :rck: :rck:
mfahey
12-19-2006, 01:22 PM
Glad it is all fixed. No gold star for me.
mfahey
12-21-2006, 06:13 PM
I've been offline for a few days thanks to ATT/SBC but I'm surprised that the check engine light wasn't on due to the O2 sensor problem. It does seem that 72,000 miles is very early for a failure of this sensor as I had heard that generally, 100,000 miles are a reasonable number before this should be replaced.
