Well, after seeing a few websites about the advantages of converting the Mopar ignition system over to a GM HEI ignition module, I thought 'Sounds good... Why not?'...
So the other day, while at a 'Pick-your-own-parts' boneyard, I grabbed a couple of items. A Mopar distributor connector and a GM module (I wasn't going to buy a new one, until I knew it was gonna work... The used one cost me a buck...)
Anyway, picture A shows the parts I got. The aluminum plate was some scrap I had. Figured it would make a good mounting base and heat sink.
Picture B shows where I decided to mount it. On the firewall next to the voltage regulator. It fit, is fairly easy to get to and there was already a 1/4" stud sticking out. In fact I ended up sharing a mounting bolt on the VR with the aluminum plate, which also has a small braided ground strap.
I drill my holes in the plate and tap the mounting holes for the module. There were a couple of 'nubs' on bottom of the module for posistioning in a GM distributor. These I cut off with an Xacto knife, so the module sits flat on the plate. I smear some heat-sink grease on the back of the module and button it up
Picture C shows the finished plate.
Picture D shows one of the wire looms I made. All connections soldered.
Picture E shows the plate mounted and the wiring hooked up.
Picture F is BYE-BYE ballast!! I had to jumper both connections as whoever had this before ran some accessories off the both, but being as I've unplugged the mopar ECU, no biggie. These jumpers I made are just temporary... Later on I'll come up with something more solid and permanent.
Anyway, it fired right up and runs very well! Next up is a new set of plugs gapped at .045 .... Now I'm not expecting any huge gains in power or milage, but now I've got a stronger ignition system and got rid of that 'weak link' ballast... And it's costing me next to nothing :D
LEVE
09-09-2006, 10:10 PM
Humm.. .I was just down at Spaulding' Pick &' Pull the last two days getting parts to rebuild the Caravan that hit a deer two weeks ago.
I would have only one suggestion, and that's enclose the ignition module. You can do that by getting a Ford module, and removing the guts. Then install the module in it and mount it to the firewall. It will keep the module clean, and act as a good heat sink. Here's an example for a Jeep CJ:
Humm.. .I was just down at Spaulding' Pick &' Pull the last two days getting parts to rebuild the Caravan that hit a deer two weeks ago.
Heh heh heh..... I probably walked right by ya... Maybe we should wear signs on our heads :D I'm sure you found the needed parts though, as I remember walking by a lot of them with intact front ends.
I would have only one suggestion, and that's enclose the ignition module. You can do that by getting a Ford module, and removing the guts. Then install the module in it and mount it to the firewall. It will keep the module clean, and act as a good heat sink. Here's an example for a Jeep CJ:
Yeah you're probably right.. My thinking was along the lines of having air (Even if it's hot air) being able to blow on the whole unit... Although I'm guessing that while they need cooling it might not have to be that much being as the modules were originally mounted inside the distributor with no air flow and a hot distributor as the only 'heat sink'... I do like the idea of the radio capacitor being mounted next to the module rather than bolting up to the coil bracket bolt... Maybe I'll fashion some sort of cover for the module, if for nothing else to keep the mud and water off of it... And on second thought I think I'll put some shrink-tubing on the spade lugs in the case of the very off-chance of something coming in contact with them and shorting them out...
Dodgevanman
09-11-2006, 12:04 PM
This system replaces the Mopar ECU and uses the GM module therefore eliminating the ballast resistor? Cool!
bherder
09-11-2006, 06:23 PM
This system replaces the Mopar ECU and uses the GM module therefore eliminating the ballast resistor? Cool!
Yup! It's a beautiful thing! Not only do you get rid of that pesky ballast resistor, but you get an ECU that (From everything I've read/heard) is a lot more dependable than the Mopar ECU and you get to run the coil/ignition at a full 12 volts (Of course you have to replace the 'stock' coil with an aftermarket one... I already replaced mine with an Accel Pro Stock about a year ago, so I was already good to go... :D )
I'm going to buy a new GM ECU at Napa ($22.00) now that I know it works, and fashion some sort of cover for it, as well as put some shrink tubing on the terminals so there is no chance of anything coming in contact and shorting them out....
Aside from the 'bypassing the ammeter gauge and correcting the electrical weakness' these year(s) Mopars suffer, I think this is probably about the 2nd best thing I've ever done for my rig... And cheap too! :D
L5wolvesf
09-11-2006, 09:04 PM
This system replaces the Mopar ECU and uses the GM module therefore eliminating the ballast resistor? Cool!
So I'm a bit Dodge ignorant. I take it these are good things to change out? Please 'splain any other advantages to this, sounds interesting. Are there any negatives to doing this?
Thanks
bherder
09-12-2006, 09:11 AM
So I'm a bit Dodge ignorant. I take it these are good things to change out? Please 'splain any other advantages to this, sounds interesting. Are there any negatives to doing this?
Thanks
A: Ballast resistors are sorta' a 'weak link' in Mopar (And other's) ignition system.
If they 'go'... You're stuck...
B: Mopar ECU modules, while pretty good (Without getting into the 'Lean Burn' stuff, which is basically junk) don't seem to enjoy the same longevity as do the GM HEI units... At least on the range of years of our rigs... ;)
C: Bypassing the ballast and running a coil that will accept the full 12+ volts will give you a better/hotter spark than a coil that is 'deluted' down to 9-10 volts.
So yeah, it's a good thing all around ;)
Mopower79
10-03-2006, 03:35 PM
Hey bherder!!!.. What gauge wire did you use????
And did you find a better way to bypass the resistor???... Could one gut the back & solder the links together with the same gauge wire????....Just a thought....
bherder
10-03-2006, 07:19 PM
Hey bherder!!!.. What gauge wire did you use????
14 gauge. I always go for a larger size than 'stock' when I rewire something. Call it a goofy quirk of mine ;)
And did you find a better way to bypass the resistor???...
Not yet... I've just sorta secured the wires for the moment with a plastic tie so it's not bouncing around....
Could one gut the back & solder the links together with the same gauge wire????....Just a thought....
I was thinking the same thing myself... ;)
Next time I go to the 'Pull yer own parts' place I'm going to look for one with the exposed resistor.. (Rather than trying to dig out whatever it is they fill it in with now) But yeah a piece of wire soldered in there would be slick. It would also help keep the 'stock' look....
old tired rebel
01-12-2007, 08:34 PM
How well would this conversion work on a modified engine like mine?
Right now I have a mopar electronic ignition.I feel the engine I have could use a better and stronger set up.
bherder
01-13-2007, 12:20 AM
How well would this conversion work on a modified engine like mine?
Right now I have a mopar electronic ignition.I feel the engine I have could use a better and stronger set up.
I don't see why it wouldn't be anything but an improvement...
Yes, there are probably better ignition systems out there, but that involves a whole bunch of $$ ... Being as I'm a cheap SOB, I opted for the 'vastly improved/low cost' system. I've been running this now for 5-6 months and it's been absolutly flawless....
The beauty of the whole setup is, you can toss two of the weak links in the Mopar ignition system... The MAJOR one, being the ballast resistor(s)... And the minor one being the 'OK, but there are better' ECU ....
Not to mention that you can run full voltage to the coil (AFTERMARKET coil), gap the plugs at .045 instead of .035, you get a more all-around better/hotter spark, and a much more reliable ECU... It's a 'win-win' all the way around as far as I'm concerned... ;)
B-300
01-13-2007, 07:09 PM
This maybe a working model, but I would do the following to improve reliablity.
#1 Turn the module around so the trigger end is closer to the distributor and the terminals point down to help shed water and dew of it.
#2 Twist the wires from the distibutor into a twisted pair. This will prevent false signaling from the spark plug wires. You could use braided shielding to do this with one end grounded.
--B-300--
AMP762
01-14-2007, 01:18 AM
What is this talk of weak parts all about? I'm new to Mopar,only had my 79 W150 about 15 yrs, and 200,000mi. I have done nothing to this truck but tune ups and lof. So am I really lucky or is this a scare tactic to keep others away from the few old Trucks left out there?
bherder
01-14-2007, 05:54 PM
This maybe a working model, but I would do the following to improve reliablity.
#1 Turn the module around so the trigger end is closer to the distributor
Look at the pic again... the trigger end is the closer end to the dist..
and the terminals point down to help shed water and dew of it.
Since the pics shown, I've shrink-tubed the female spade connectors. I also shot a little blob of dielectric grease in each connector. Even at that, had I not greased the connectors and just shrink-tubed them, if the ECU male terminals were pointing down, that would keep any moisture in the female ends rather than having them point up and allowing them to... 'drain'... (For lack of a better term..)
#2 Twist the wires from the distibutor into a twisted pair. This will prevent false signaling from the spark plug wires. You could use braided shielding to do this with one end grounded.
Well, I guess I could, but I see no need to... The Dodge Boys didn't do this from the factory... I've never seen or heard of this being any sort of problem before... And it has run flawlessly for the last 6-7 months..
So being as I'm not making LAN cables, my philosophy is "If it ain't broke... :D "
--B-300--
bherder
01-14-2007, 06:07 PM
What is this talk of weak parts all about? I'm new to Mopar,only had my 79 W150 about 15 yrs, and 200,000mi. I have done nothing to this truck but tune ups and lof. So am I really lucky or is this a scare tactic to keep others away from the few old Trucks left out there?
I think you've been pretty lucky :D
Yes, the ballast resistor is a weak link in the ignition (I dont know of most true Mopar guys that didn't carry an extra one on the glove box ;) )
And yeah, the factory ECU is a 'Pretty-darn-good-but-not-without-it's-problems' kinda' thing.
Heh heh heh.... No this is not a scare tactic... I'd love to see all of us driving Mopars... It's just one of those things (EVERY car-builder has their strong/weak points) where those of us who love our old Dodge rigs.. Well, Dodge didn't do everything right, but there are ways out there to fix it :D
DKSturgeon
05-07-2007, 05:07 PM
I have one question about the HEI setup, What do you do with the existing wiring for the ignition(lean burn,points) Just snip them off at the harness? After reading the write ups this sounds far easier then going back to electronic type mopar ignition.
bherder
05-07-2007, 07:41 PM
I have one question about the HEI setup, What do you do with the existing wiring for the ignition(lean burn,points) Just snip them off at the harness? After reading the write ups this sounds far easier then going back to electronic type mopar ignition.
AHHH!!! This is the other beauty about this.... don't snip anything off!
See, if you don't mind having a couple of dangeling connectors, (I put electrical tape over mine to keep the crud out) ... You in essence have a 'back-up' ignition system! (Pretty cool :D )
Should the HEI system ever fail, all you gotta' do is re-plug 4 things (Takes you about 5 minutes)
Plug the connector from the dist pickup back into the factory wiring harness... Plug your 4-5 pin connector back into the ignition module (Which you've left bolted to the firewall/fenderwell), and put your ballast resistor back into the circuit (You can leave this bolted to the firewall or keep it in the glovebox) .....
Does it get any better than that? :D :D :D Just like the NASCAR guys ;)
I've had this conversion in since last October (?? somewhere around there..) and it has run flawless so far... Can gap the plugs at .045 ...
The couple of things you gotta make sure you do is get an aftermarket coil that can work at FULL voltage (12-13-14v) .... The 'stock' Mopar coil is not meant to run at these voltages for long .... And get yourself a really nice Heavy Duty cap and rotor. (Standard Ignition 'Blue Streak' ... Copper/Brass connections... Very good stuff ... That's what I use....)
timethy
05-07-2007, 09:05 PM
Is the stock mopar ignition module tolerant of the 12-volt aftermarket coil? Is the heavy duty distributor necessary?
Speed Dragon
05-07-2007, 09:07 PM
Is the stock mopar ignition module tolerant of the 12-volt aftermarket coil? Is the heavy duty distributor necessary?#1 yes, #2 no.
bherder
05-07-2007, 10:07 PM
Is the stock mopar ignition module tolerant of the 12-volt aftermarket coil?
Oh, without a doubt.... I ran my Accel coil for about a year, before 'converting' over....
Is the heavy duty distributor necessary?
I didn't say, a 'Heavy Duty Dist'.. I just said it's best to run 'GOOD' parts... (As in anything else ;) )
See, the reason (Other than trying to fit everything under the dist cap) GM went to the big-azzed cap when they introduced HEI in 73'-74' was because they were having probs with the spark jumping the 'gap' with the smaller dist cap... In other words, it was firing 3 plugs at once instead of just one... Hence the bigger cap....
Lucky for us, that it doesn't happen on a Mopar dist for whatever reason...
Just get (Even stock ignition) a good heavy cap-rotor with copper/brass inserts... Not that feather-weight stuff with the aluminum junk molded into it...
DKSturgeon
05-07-2007, 10:53 PM
Also where does the HEI system get its lead to the ignition switch, I know you run from the dis connector to the HEI module and then from the module to the coil, and jumper the connector you unplug from the ballast. Do you just leave the wires from the old ignition system connected to the coil plus the new wires from the HEI. Thats the only part that mixes me up on the install.
bherder
05-07-2007, 11:10 PM
You can leave the factory + wire going to the coil as is... Once you bypass the ballast, it'll get full voltage to it (No matter if the ignition is in 'start' or 'run')
DKSturgeon
05-10-2007, 01:40 PM
Well I went and bought my HEI module today and I was wondering which wires go to the "W" and the "G" on the igntion module. They say the wire colors can vary on the distributor. Its says the + and - from the distributor but how will I tell which is which. Does it say it on the distributor? Just dont want to get my wires crossed.
mrhite65
05-10-2007, 10:45 PM
Here's more info on the swap. http://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15779
Chump
05-11-2007, 11:36 PM
Bherder, I would be happier if you used some dielectric grease between the bottom of the module and the mounting plate.:)
This is to transfer heat. GM did this, it was a thermal compound and was white in color back over 25 years ago. But like you say yours is not inside the distributor.
Good project!
Funny, I'm in the process of refurbing a GM HEI distributor for a friend in Belgium. This will slide right into his 83 CJ7 258 with a different distributor gear. I will send him a relay and wiring kit so that he can get full voltage to the HEI coil in the cap. I'll use 12ga for the power feed and 14ga for the Tach connection.
DKSturgeon
05-12-2007, 08:43 AM
Here's more info on the swap. http://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15779
So pretty much its just a guessing game and if it doesnt start just swap the wires, I suppose I will try it.
bherder
05-12-2007, 09:11 AM
Bherder, I would be happier if you used some dielectric grease between the bottom of the module and the mounting plate.:)
This is to transfer heat. GM did this, it was a thermal compound and was white in color back over 25 years ago. But like you say yours is not inside the distributor.
Good project!
Funny, I'm in the process of refurbing a GM HEI distributor for a friend in Belgium. This will slide right into his 83 CJ7 258 with a different distributor gear. I will send him a relay and wiring kit so that he can get full voltage to the HEI coil in the cap. I'll use 12ga for the power feed and 14ga for the Tach connection.
I did use the dielectric grease.... I even cut the little 'positioning' nubs off the bottom so the module sets perfectly flat on the piece of aluminum... ;)
bherder
05-12-2007, 09:17 AM
So pretty much its just a guessing game and if it doesnt start just swap the wires, I suppose I will try it.
Here's two more links on the conversion... Maybe this'll clear the air a bit for you...
I'd like to try the 12-volt coil with my factory ECU. I have the dual ballast, ballast-voltage goes to the ECU. Do you leave that as-is or give the ECU the full 12 volts also?
needa440please
05-15-2007, 09:31 AM
I'm also curious. If the ECU gets 12v via the blue wire is this bad for it?
I seemed to have trouble when the truck got hot with power going to the coil.
A fused lead from the battery + to the coil + helped. But it still would die driving, so I hope it was the timing chain all along.
Cheers!
77PowerPickup
05-15-2007, 05:05 PM
I am having some issues getting this setup to run properly on my 77 Dodge Pickup with Electronic Ignition, Distributor, and dual ballast resistor.
ECU Setup:
In my cab I have the ECU mounted to two 2" CPU Heatsinks with dielectric grease and a grounding strap to a known good ground.
Terminal "C" on the ECU has a 14 gauge wire run to the negative side of the coil.
Terminal "B" on the ECU has a 14 gauge wire run to the positive side of the coil.
Terminal "W" on the ECU has a 14 gauge wire run to the orange/red pickup wire on the distributor.
Terminal "G" on the ECU has a 14 gauge wire run to the black/brown pickup wire on the distributor.
Bypassing the dual ballast resistor:
Two +12V enter the ballast resistor on the bottom two terminals. Both of thesee +12V are only triggered during the "Ignition Run" aka not during cranking.
Exiting out of the top of the ballast are three wires, two on the top left and one on the top right.
The one on the top right was for the original ECU's +5V, so it was promptly cut out of the system. On the other hand, the other two wires provided the coil with either +12V during "Ignition Start" aka during cranking or +9V during "Ignition Run" aka not during cranking.
The ballast resistor is feed by a +12V source coming from the firewall. This +12V source also feeds: Voltage Regulator, Alternator, and the Original ECU.
Now, since the original ECU is gone here is my bypass setup:
Red wire from firewall supplying +12V during "Ignition Run" to the following: Alternator, Voltage Regulator, Positive Coil (which in turn feeds terminal "B" on the HEI).
Pink wire from firewall supplying +12V during "Ignition Start" to the following:
Alternator, Voltage Regulator, Positive Coil (which in turn feeds terminal "B" on the HEI).
However, the vehicle does not start. I have tried switching the distributor pickup wires. I for sure have fuel and air, but did a spark test and definitely have NO spark. This leads me to think I picked up a bum ECU. I tested for power at the ECU and there was power during cranking and in the accessories position.
On the other hand, my tachometer (hooked up to the negative post on the coil) is no longer reading during cranking. This leads me to believe that it is the coil. The coil is relatively new (Accell purchased just over a year ago) and the new HEI was purchased just yesterday.
Help?
I have a picture of the setup but the image system here seems a little finicky.
62savoywagon
05-18-2007, 08:59 PM
I am going to have to try this out. I saw last weekend where a guy with a 1980 D100 with a 318 had installed a GM HEI. Took some work but fires right off!
farmguy
05-19-2007, 09:15 PM
Bruce, nice post, very informative.........American ingenuity at its best.....Thanks....
DKSturgeon
05-27-2007, 07:46 PM
Well I got the dodge running today with the hei setup, When I was installing it I started looking for the ballast to jumper....but I have lean burn so no ballast. So I skipped that part, Had the distibutor 180 degrees out at first, spun it around and fired right off. Very simple project.
bherder
05-27-2007, 09:14 PM
Figured, you figure it out... ;)
Glad to see you got it running... :D
Eggman
05-28-2007, 01:26 PM
Mallory now makes a HEI for chrysler small blocks pn 7557901c.It has a built in rev limiter and alot of other goodies in it too! $365.00 on Summit web site.
DKSturgeon
05-29-2007, 02:07 PM
This ignition system cost me 30 bucks, Also I have it running but the distributor is turned clockwise as far as it can go and the vacuum advance module is hitting the firewall. How do I get it the distributor to face around the right direction so I can advance and retard it like I need to. It cant be a tooth off because the distributor just had a flat tip like a screwdriver. Could I have not set my TDC correctly?
bherder
05-29-2007, 04:17 PM
This ignition system cost me 30 bucks, Also I have it running but the distributor is turned clockwise as far as it can go and the vacuum advance module is hitting the firewall. How do I get it the distributor to face around the right direction so I can advance and retard it like I need to. It cant be a tooth off because the distributor just had a flat tip like a screwdriver. Could I have not set my TDC correctly?
Are you sure you have the plug wires on the correct posts? I mean, not just in the proper firing order (Which you obviously do) but shifted one post 'off' all the way around? That's the only thing I can think of why your dist would be cranked so far off.... On mine, the vacuum advance is just about parrallel with the firewall...
Check this diagram out (The little squares in the pic of the dist, are where the clips that hold the cap on are...)
DKSturgeon
05-29-2007, 05:17 PM
It should sit how yours sits. Maybe I do have all the plug wires off one, but I didnt even know it would run like that. It runs to good to be very far off on the timing. I'll check it out tonight. Thanks
bherder
05-29-2007, 06:28 PM
It should sit how yours sits. Maybe I do have all the plug wires off one, but I didnt even know it would run like that. It runs to good to be very far off on the timing. I'll check it out tonight. Thanks
Hey there DK... I'm almost gonna bet you've got everything shifted one post over... Sure, it WILL run and run fine, if you've got the room to crank the dist around.. (Keep in mind, just having the firing rotation shifted around one post will throw the timing off by 45 degrees... )
If this helps you at all, heres a pic of my dist... ;)
DKSturgeon
06-03-2007, 12:54 PM
Got It running again and I had everything off one post. I dont havnt timed it with a light yet but it seems to be pretty close, but when I put it in gear and put a load on it the truck shakes like crazy, Its got a miss but none of the plug wires seem to be arcing on each other. I didnt gap my plugs wider, Would that cause this? Also my holley 4 barrel hasnt been tuned in a long time and Ive heard you have to tune them often. Kinda lost on where to start.
DKSturgeon
06-03-2007, 03:07 PM
Plug wires crossed at motor, Guess I was in such a hurry to get it running I guess I got them crossed. Runs and drives perfect now besides the fact that I need a new powersteering pump.
AP
06-03-2007, 03:35 PM
My grandpa put one of these in his van and he seems pretty happy with it! It got rid of his ballast resistor and a whole lot more. http://www.performancedistributors.com/chryslerdui.htm
Stuckey
06-03-2007, 05:42 PM
bherder.. what did you cut off the donor vehicle and what was the donor vehicle.
i would like to try this to see how well it works with my trucks bugs.
and if you needed to buy anything what would it be.
I am making a list of things to be dont to the truck i have a budget of 1500 but i need to stretch that a long ways
thank you
Kyle
timethy
06-03-2007, 05:48 PM
Great work guys, this sounds like a worthy upgrade.
Does anybody have furthur input regarding using 12v coils on the stock ECU?
(timethy) I'd like to try the 12-volt coil with my factory ECU. I have the dual ballast, ballast-voltage goes to the ECU. Do you leave that as-is or give the ECU the full 12 volts also?
(needa440please) I'm also curious. If the ECU gets 12v via the blue wire is this bad for it?
needa440please
06-03-2007, 11:24 PM
Ok, my new theory is my truck hates me, or perhaps I am just lazy.
Can an engine start one day, then just not even try to fire next?
Anyhow, do I need a rather heavy gauge wire running to my tach?
old tired rebel
06-14-2007, 09:03 PM
Hey Bherder, does it matter which HEI you get? Cause I have a real good one from a Pontiac 350 it it will work I would like to do this conversion.
bherder
06-15-2007, 08:52 AM
Hey Bherder, does it matter which HEI you get? Cause I have a real good one from a Pontiac 350 it it will work I would like to do this conversion.
So far as I know, they're all the same thing (Until you start getting into the later years with more connections on them)
I'm pretty sure that if you were to look them up for (say) a 76' Chevy, Buick, Pontiac, GMC, etc. they'd all be the same part number....
98SS/T
09-13-2007, 07:47 AM
Just so you guys know that part your using in the conversion is the part that causes the most problems in the GM Hei distributor. my dad's old suburban died completely when that part failed. Personally I wouldn't touch it.
bherder
09-13-2007, 09:01 AM
What part? The module itself? Well, if that's so, you're the first person I've heard to say that.. I'm sure they do fail (Like everything else) from time to time, but everything else I read was, one of the reasons for the change over was that they were better than the Mopar unit.
I guess we'll find out. I've had mine on for a year now and it's run flawlessly ;)
AMP762
09-13-2007, 10:37 PM
Just so you guys know that part your using in the conversion is the part that causes the most problems in the GM Hei distributor. my dad's old suburban died completely when that part failed. Personally I wouldn't touch it.
I've got a couple dist. with over 200,000 with the oem module.
vestpuzzle1
09-14-2007, 10:49 PM
The OEM Module is the BEST......Depending on the kind of driving you do.
iviper123
10-02-2007, 01:44 AM
does it work with california emissions/// the litlle computer on the side of the air filter housing???
bherder
10-02-2007, 09:39 AM
does it work with california emissions/// the litlle computer on the side of the air filter housing???
I'm sure it would, but then you'd have to eleminate all the emissions stuff related to that, and I'm not sure how you engine would run.. Plus if you need that stuff to pass smog tests, I would think that would kill the idea right there....
Chump
10-05-2007, 07:13 AM
Just so you guys know that part your using in the conversion is the part that causes the most problems in the GM Hei distributor. my dad's old suburban died completely when that part failed. Personally I wouldn't touch it.
It actually wasnt the module that was bad back in "those days"...it was a combination of heat and resistance from the coil and the connections. Any vehicle will die when the ignition module goes out whether it's a Chevy or a Dodge. This conversion listed here has almost NO heat stress. We also have to consider if proper maintenance was given to the distributor as they don't run by FM(fricking magic). Alot of people just don't maintain there electrical system at all. I guess if a Good Year tire has a flat, than we should condemn Good Year?
The era of the HEI ignition system has alot of war stories and alot of engineering changes, yes there were problems but they were addressed for the most part
Speed Dragon
10-05-2007, 08:41 AM
Honestly I still don't see where it's any better than the original Mopar setup.
bherder
10-05-2007, 09:21 AM
No ballast resistor ...
With an aftermarket coil you can run a full 12 volts to the coil (Better spark, gap your plugs at .045" - I saw an immediate improvement on cold starts)
From what I've "read" .. The GM module is more reliable than the Mopar (I suppose this is debateable) ... But the GM module is half the price of the Mopar one ;)
DiverDwnPowrRam
10-05-2007, 09:57 AM
FM..fricken magic..that is a new one to me...ha ha ha. Honestly I am with Speed on this...I remember the debate. I will admit i am sometimes envious and curious but the debate was that with the HEI system you have to increase from .032 to .045 spark gap because of the higher voltages. Yes you get rid of a troublesome part, the resister but as Chump said, if you maintain the electrical system..... I remember part of the white papers on this identified cylinder burn with this setup. I do not agree with this as chevrolets use basically the same metals in their blocks. I just am hesitant to swap this over...my ram fires on cold or hot days from the first crank with no gas sitting for 8 hours or 4 days.
Speed Dragon
10-05-2007, 12:45 PM
I've actually never had a ballast go bad on me. My Dad has at least once on our old van though. But really, how often do they go out, IF there are no other problems present in the wiring? And how much spark does it actually need? My plugs were always perfectly colored even when running points ignition. The only advantage I ever saw in the HEI system was the direct coil-to-rotor and one-wire setup. I don't think the module itself is any better.
BTW I'm not dogging you for doing the swap, I'm just playing Mopar's Advocate here :D
bherder
10-05-2007, 05:18 PM
Diver sez:
with the HEI system you have to increase from .032 to .045 spark gap because of the higher voltages.
I don't think you really have too... when I first installed this, I left the plugs (.032") I had in there for a few weeks... Put a new set in at .045" . I think the .045" gave me some easier starting, but it didn't run bad at all with the old plugs..
Yes you get rid of a troublesome part, the resister but as Chump said, if you maintain the electrical system.....
Heh heh heh ... We most folk don't....(WE do of course, because we know better! ;) ) Even way back when in the stone-age (1972 when I first got my licence and my first Mopar) I didn't know too many Mopar guys that didn't carry a spare in the glove box :D
my ram fires on cold or hot days
I'll betcha' a doughnut that a "cold" day in Jacksonville FL. ain't anything like a "cold" day 50 miles from the Canadian border at 2,500 ft... :D :D :D
Speed sez:
I've actually never had a ballast go bad on me.
I've actually had a couple-three go bad. (Over 35 years) Sometimes it happens for no 'apparent' reason (there may be, like you say, a wiring system that's been neglected) but electrical, like mechanical things... all fail sooner or later. It just made sense to me, to take a 'weak link' out of the chain..
And how much spark does it actually need?
Just enough to ignite the mixture, right? :D I look at it this way... If you can have a 'better' spark for next to nothing, why not? I'm sure as shit not getting any better mpg (HA! a full-time 4x4 with a 360... I live at the gas station! :mad: ) and so far as 'power' ... I can't really tell, being as I'm running an engine with close to 200k on it. But I'll tell ya, when it's 20 below outside and it fires right up like the middle of July... THAT'S where it makes the difference :D
The only advantage I ever saw in the HEI system was the direct coil-to-rotor and one-wire setup.
Ahh yes! the 'KISS' factor. A beautiful thing!!
BTW I'm not dogging you for doing the swap, I'm just playing Mopar's Advocate here
No prob at all there Speed! None at all ;) I suppose this is one of those 'personal preference things? Like arguing what's better, Bud, Miller, Coors kinda' thing. (I know, you like that 'clear' stuff :D )
As much as we love our ol' Mopars... They didn't get everything right ..
DiverDwnPowrRam
10-05-2007, 06:35 PM
I'll betcha' a doughnut that a "cold" day in Jacksonville FL. ain't anything like a "cold" day 50 miles from the Canadian border at 2,500 ft...
yeah, but its a wet cold..he he he...don't forget my relatives live near Monarch pass Colo and the other ones are near Grand Mesa Colo..it gets a bit nippl"y" there and the Ram never had problems in the cold.
I say I envy the conversion because I remember my time in Kubinka Russia (Russian version of Aberdeen Proving Grounds) and my liason officer Oleg told me that their tanks operated flawlessly in the cold because of "simple designs"...and different oil. Maybe the HEI is a simpler design by removing an admittedly bad part...the ballast resistor.
Speed Dragon
10-05-2007, 10:25 PM
BTW you guys do know they make an actual HEI dizzy for the Mopars, right? I think maybe I posted a link to them somewhere in this thread or another.
Chump
10-06-2007, 12:43 AM
I forgot to mention, if you want the thermal grease that is more like GM used to use, try Radio Shack. Some stores have it and some don't.
An actual, HEI coil-to-rotor style dizzy, no coil wire and single wire hookup for cleaner wiring. Also has the big dizzy cap, which helps prevent arcing w/ hi-power coils. Expensive but nice.
87Dodgeman
02-20-2008, 05:41 PM
I have read that the lean burn/spark computer (scc) ignition comes from the factory with a 12v coil. So if I'm converting from the spark computer to an HEI module all I need is a vacuum advance distributor & 4 pin hei module? I can use my stock coil (which is only 2 months old) because the scc version doesn't have a balast resistor in the system.
The scc coils have different part numbers than non-scc coils. I verified this by searching Advance's site for a '77 D150 vs an '87 D150.
Does all of this sound right?
phildelfino
02-20-2008, 09:12 PM
bherder, sorry for asking, but what year truck did you do this to and what motor does your truck have? I have an 87 W 150, 318, and am assuming this will work for me as well. I love junkyard projects and will print this out in its entirety, including the side links so I don't miss anything.
bherder
02-20-2008, 09:24 PM
bherder, sorry for asking, but what year truck did you do this to and what motor does your truck have? I have an 87 W 150, 318, and am assuming this will work for me as well. I love junkyard projects and will print this out in its entirety, including the side links so I don't miss anything.
It's a 79' Powerwagon with a 360. Ignition on all V-8's are the same.
This ignition has worked AWESOMEly well! There have been others that have had probs, but I suspect, 'things' weren't correct with their rigs to begin with.
Print up, all you want... Maybe someday, when I have the time, I'll write a more detailed 'how to' ... ;)
phildelfino
02-20-2008, 10:31 PM
Thanks, I will. Now if only someone would teach me how to rebuild a carb.
84 Ram
03-29-2008, 06:37 PM
I have a 87 Dak with the lean burn can I use the HEI module on it to bypass the computer.
bherder
03-31-2008, 08:58 AM
I have a 87 Dak with the lean burn can I use the HEI module on it to bypass the computer.
Mmmmm...... Don't know really. I suppose you could make it work, but I'm not sure what disconnecting the other stuff the lean burn controls would do to how the truck runs... And there is always the 'smog testing' aspect of it, if you have to do that....
DiverDwnPowrRam
03-31-2008, 10:37 AM
One thought....why is this not a sticky how toin dog talk posts? I think Bruce's post clearly qualifies as a great how to.
76D100
03-31-2008, 10:56 AM
I used a coil and modified bracket from a mid 90's small block mopar. I mounted it on the intake to the right side of the carb. It almost looks like it might belong there... kinda.
Would someone please sticky this thread?
bherder
03-31-2008, 02:29 PM
Maybe I should write a 'better' how-to? ... With a schematic and all that?
I did just sorta' willy-nilly throw that post together....
76D100
03-31-2008, 02:56 PM
Yea, an actual step by step without 4 pages of filler...
Speed Dragon
03-31-2008, 08:46 PM
And while you're stickying, please please please sticky a thread w/ bherder's differential identification picture too ;)
BaggedIndy
03-31-2008, 09:15 PM
I will offer up my drafting services if you want. I do electrical design and drafting so if you want me to draw it up pretty let me know. I just finished up the Hemi swap drawings for 86 5.7.
Crippled_Eagle
04-03-2008, 12:07 AM
[B]Hello All
Has anyone a link to the instructions to converting to an HEI ignition? My son has a beautiful D150 with a slant 6 with the computer hanging on the aircleaner. The darn thing has shot craps again and I would rather convert it to a simpler ignition that doesn't cost so much. He also has an earlier (1978) with am electronic ignition which works well. That truck is soon to go to the scraper as it is shot, so I was wondering what it takes to convert to the earlier ignition? And which would you recommend?
Thanks to all!
Marvin
marvine.evans@sbcglobal.net
bherder
04-03-2008, 09:50 AM
Here is the simplified schematic for the ignition you want to take off the junker and install on the newer rig. I've never changed a lean-burn over to a 'regular' ignition before, so I can't offer up anything other than this. I think there may be a couple of guys in this forum who have done this, who could offer up a 'how-to'...
Crippled_Eagle
04-08-2008, 07:29 AM
Thanks for the info!
I got the truck running Saturday. Was a lot simpler than I thought it might be. I am not totally sure the distributor in it was one off of f lean burn engine as it has a vacuum advance on it. I am familiar with Ford ignitions similar to the lean burn, and they have no vacuum adavnce, totally advanced by the processor.
Anyway, one more nice truck saved from the shredder!
Regards
Marvin
iviper123
04-19-2008, 10:49 PM
i tried converting to the HEI today but i was not succesfull wired everything up changed the distubitor got the arm in the same spot as the old one. but i don't have any spark at the moment. tried switching the wiresaround still nothing.
has any one had trouble with the coils? i bought a new coil for the conversion and i got some new wires the other day ecause i had some bad wires but the new wire for the coil dosen't fit the coil(wrong conetor) do i need to buy a chevy coil wire?
ok, more thoughts
do i need to supply power to the hei unit or to the coil from the battery?(direct from battery)
new distubitor wires go to the w and g connectors///and the coil wires go to b and c connectors?
bherder
04-20-2008, 08:36 AM
Yes you must have voltage going to the coil. Leave the factory wire connnected to the positive terminal on the coil. Also, make sure you have the correct wires goingto/from the terminals on the GM module and that it's grounded.
iviper123
04-20-2008, 09:00 AM
great
ok well i got the lean burn computer so ill figure something out
i ran a wire from the batt to the coil and she starts after some cranking, but it seems to be running stong, but its idleing high right now
bherder
04-20-2008, 01:37 PM
great
ok well i got the lean burn computer so ill figure something out
i ran a wire from the batt to the coil and she starts after some cranking, but it seems to be running stong, but its idleing high right now
Well, you've probably got a dist with dual pick ups and no vacuum advance...
(I think... It's been a loooong time, since I've tinkered with a lean-burn)
You 'll have to get an older dist with a single pick-up and vacuum advance for it to run right... Plus the idle stop solenoid may be affecting your idle...
You might have to change or modify the carb... I really don't know, I've not tried to do what you're doing.....
Howdy Charlie, well i'm doin pretty good fer an old FAT feller. :D
Went back to work driving wrecker for my friend at the yard, so workin 6pm to 6am again...didn't like sittin round the house just taking care of my wife. I went to Algadones and got me one of them little Mexican chaquitas to help the wife so I can get away from the ranch for a while.... :)
How you doin anyway??
charlie1935
04-21-2008, 07:46 AM
Doin' good, Rick. Still hauling boats. :gr_patrio
lebanu
05-11-2008, 11:38 AM
Hi, I am a retard when it comes to things like this...is the white rectangular thing in picture F the ballast resistor? Thanks
bherder
05-11-2008, 01:09 PM
Hi, I am a retard when it comes to things like this...is the white rectangular thing in picture F the ballast resistor? Thanks
Yes
dafische
05-20-2008, 03:46 PM
Okay. Backup for me a bit here. The HEI replaces the ECU. good. fine. I'm clear. But the wiring has me a bit confused. Two wires from the HEI go to the positive and negative on the distributor coil, (the big round thing with a spark wire going to the distributor cap). Where do the wires come from to plug into the HEI? Do they come right off the ignition relay, (since you are bypassing the balast)? My guess is that the wire bringing the power in (on my 85 W350 it's blue) should just connect right into the HEI. But what about the wire for the negative terminal. Where does that come from?
AND
Maybe I should have asked this first. Will this work on a truck with a dual pickup distributor? (Yes, the lovely system that has one pickup to start the truck and one to run the truck.) I'm hoping it will cause I can't get a spark out of the coil, despite buying a new coil and checking every stinking wire from one end to the other for damage or unintended grounding! Bout ready to blow something up.
