Advice needed for Dodge 413 cid engine's carburetor

[HayU]

I need advice on the best 4 bbl carburetor for my 1973 (Dodge) Superior motor home that I bought last year. The home has been refurbished and is in great shape and the 413 cid engine sounds solid. It idled great till it warmed up then constantly died and would sputter and stall when acclerated. My mechanic tuned it up with new points, plugs, wireing , coil,etc but said the Carb (Holly) was worn out and replaced it with a factory rebuilt 600 cmf Holly. The engine still idles good(exhaust is extreamly strong)and will run well after speed is built up but still bogs down on accleration. He thinks there is something else wrong other than the carb but I don't. I can hold the butterfly
half closed and it will acclerate almost as it should. I know there are two schools of thought on carburetors but I need advice from actual MOPAR owners of which 4 bbl carb, Holly or Carter AFB, would give the best mileage and preformance. Also any advice would be appricated.
Thanks
HayU

[farmguy]

If it runs better w/ the choke butterfly partially closed, that could indicate a vacuum problem........id check the hoses etc, and use a vac. gauge on it........good luck !!

[RAM MAN]

I'd ck with barry grant

[Dodgevanman]

One thing I'd do is swap over to electronic ignition and get rid of those points.

If you can't get your carb. to play nice, try an Edelbrock 750cfm w/electric choke. This will give more air/fuel into the engine and with the electric choke you can eliminate the heat riser "flap" in the exhaust manifold. These are notorious for sticking shut or open.

[HayU]

Thanks guys for your replies.
Farmguy I wish I had access to a vacuum gage but I don't. All the lines and hoses look good but this could be a problem. The previous owner did state that the motor ran good till he sucked trash up from the gas tank and then "rebuilt" the carb which I found to be worn out.
Ram Man I never heard of Barry Grant but his web site looks good. Thanks for the tip.
DodgeVanMan Good tip on the electronic ignition. I will do this if I can get the acceleration problem solved. Till then, the wife is frowning on additional
non-essential items. As for the Edelbrock Carburetor, I have considered this as I'm not that fond of a Holly but have never owned one before or know that much about them. First of all,
I don't know what type of bore I have on my intake manifold but would a Edlebrock fit without ordering an Edlebrock Manifold also? Second, do you think a 750 cmf carb would be correct for a 413 cid, automatic tranny MH weighing 8000 lbs as opposed to the 600 cmf that a mechanic put on? Also, would this reduce gas mileage? Due to the engine compartment limitations on the height, would the Edlebrock be close to the same height as the Holly and what linkage problems should I anticipate?
I know this is a ton of questions and possibly hard to know but I appreciate any feed back from anyone.....Thx

[Dodgevanman]

I'm actually surprised the factory carb. is not a Carter Thermoquad as opposed to the Holley.

I think a 750cfm carb. would be perfect for the 413 and would probably give a bit more "oomph". You're still hauling 8000lbs. plus you, the family and gear so any change in fuel mileage would be negligible, if any. You probably won't run into any linkage problems.

Do you have a digital camera? Snap some pics of your current carb. and post them.

[HayU]

DodgeVanMan Again Thanks for the reply.
The original owner was a race car enthusiast and used it to pull his race car all over the USA. I'm sure he put the Holly on it and is the reason I didn't know what the original Carb was but I bet it was a Carter Thermo quad.
I don't have a digital camera for a linkage photo but I am fairly good at "Southern Engineering" :) and I take it that the manifold will be no problem.
Ok.....I'm very seriously considering an Edlebrock and will still appreciate input from anyone.
Thanks..HayU

[Dodgevanman]

If the intake manifold is set up for a Thermoquad, you may have trouble with the throttle plates on the 750cfm carb. not opening properly. The Thermoquad used very small primaries and huge secondaries. The primaries on the Edelbrock 750 are large and could hit the intake. You might have to get an intake.

[HayU]

Ok...Thanks Nate,
I'm in the process of checking with Barry Grant on that very issue.
Hopefully between Dodgetalk and them I'll have my little fishing wagon going soon.... :rck:
I'm so glad to have found this web site and will definitely be back often.
Thanks for your help....HayU

[bherder]

Up until recently, the town I work for had a 76' Dodge D-800 dump truck/snow plow with a 413 in it. I don't know if it was 'stock' or not, (I doubt it) but it had a generic Holley 3310, vacuum secondaries, electric choke, 750 cfm, I believe....

The truck was old, used and abused (300,000 hard miles on it) but that carb was just about the only thing that didn't give me any probs.

I like Holley carbs, you just have to be willing to spend the extra time to "dial em' in" exactly right... ;)

[Chump]

You did change the fuel filter?
Did you check the fuel pressure and volume?
Now you say he sucked up crud, that means that the filter/sock in the tank may be clogged or gone?
If you changed the inline filter, check it out and cut it open if necessary to see if it has more crud in it.
Any chance of plugged exhaust?
Did he do a compression test?
Fuel lines from front to rear checked for pinhole leaks and cracks?

I wouldnt change the carb again until you are sure the base engine is correct.

[dodgedaddy]

Check your fuel pump, pressure/ volume could be low, adjust float levels, check for vacuum leaks with a can of carb cleaner. You can get a vacuum/fuel pressure guage at AutoZone or the like for about $15..... I'd say chances are you can get it to run quite a bit better with some basic tuning...

[75 Power Wagon]

you might want to consider a 770 holley truck avenger... Holley carbs are a better performing carb, but you have to adjust it normally... these truck avengers are as good directly out of the box as any edelbrock though.

[HayU]

I like Holley carbs, you just have to be willing to spend the extra time to "dial em' in" exactly right... ;)
Thanks bherder I am considering on first trying to improve on this Holly but it is a 600 cmf soooooooooooooooooo.
Chump..... You did change the fuel filter?
Did you check the fuel pressure and volume?
Now you say he sucked up crud, that means that the filter/sock in the tank may be clogged or gone?
If you changed the inline filter, check it out and cut it open if necessary to see if it has more crud in it.
Any chance of plugged exhaust?
Did he do a compression test?
Fuel lines from front to rear checked for pinhole leaks and cracks?
Yes, the fuel filter has been changed twice and the electric fuel pump is putting out around 8 lbs( I believe) and it has a new Chrysler fuel pressure regulator on it. I have put on a new gas tank and it had a new sock in the tank. Compression test showed down a little but not much difference between cylinders.
dodgedaddy Check your fuel pump, pressure/ volume could be low, adjust float levels, check for vacuum leaks with a can of carb cleaner. You can get a vacuum/fuel pressure guage at AutoZone or the like for about $15..... I'd say chances are you can get it to run quite a bit better with some basic tuning...
Have checked intake for leaks. Bought a vacuum guage today from AutoZone.
Thanks for that tip. I will be doing some checking tomorrow and carb adjustments. Still bothered that a 600 cmf was placed on instead of a 750.
Anyone think this will be a problem if I can get it tuned correctly?
75 Power Wagon you might want to consider a 770 Holley truck avenger... Holley carbs are a better performing carb, but you have to adjust it normally... these truck avengers are as good directly out of the box as any edelbrock though.
I'd be willing to consider a 770 Holly Avenger. Is the 770 the model number
or cmf? How do these stack up for performance and gas mileage?
I heard back from Barry Grant. They recommended a Edlebrock 750 cmf.
Said it would work on my intake and would only need a $9 kick down lever to make my linkage work....
I wish to thank all you Guys for your input and I now have some decisions to make....

[75 Power Wagon]

770 cfm holley truck avenger... They would be very similar to an edelbrock 750... I'm pretty sure it will bolt to your manifold too... Your best bet is to get one off ebay, they are much cheaper there... or jegs offers them for around 350.. which is probably out of your price range... They are great carburetors though.

[HayU]

75 Power Wagon ..... 770 cfm holley truck avenger... They would be very similar to an edelbrock 750... I'm pretty sure it will bolt to your manifold too... Your best bet is to get one off ebay, they are much cheaper there... or jegs offers them for around 350.. which is probably out of your price range... They are great carburetors though
Very interesting Power Wagon . Checked them out on jegs and they run $345...Thats only $40 more than a Edelbrock 750 if I should go that way.
Barry Grant list the 770 for $366.............

[HayU]

Ok...For the first time since being home from the mechanic's shop, I removed the engine cowling and air filter. Wasn't to pleased with some of the work. Mainly the fuel lines and fuel pressure regulator so I redone them. Finally got the motor to start and warmed up and checked vacuum. It held fairly steady 16 lbsv on the vacuum port at the intake during idle and 18 lbsv at a faster speed and would completely hold steady. Vacuum to distributor was very low at idle and went to 20 lbsv around 2000 rpm.
A problem I did find after warming up was a gas leak at times on the carb. It was coming from either the top of the primary bowl gasket or just behind it but not all the time. I have a new fuel pressure regulator on and set to 3 lbs but feel like the pressure is the cause of the leak. Am I wrong here?
The carb he put on is a Holly street carb 80457-5 600cmf and is about the cheapest of the lot. I'm still trying to decide on whether to replace it or not and which carb to use if I do.
Any more thoughts or suggestions still appricated...

[m37boblee]

Your float levels could be to high, causing it to run rich-smell raw gas in exhaust. If you have had a backfire you might have bad "power valves"(inside the carb). 413's came with square bore manifolds and small holley carbs. Holleys are good IF you want to tinker with them a lot. If you replace it I would reccomend an AVS Edelbrock carb- they are very good carbs and easy to live with. It will bolt right on, with perhaps some fuel line mods.

[HayU]

Thanks boblee,
I don't care too tinker with a carb very much. I have several replies from Chrysler Imperial owners that have 413's and they pretty much say the same thing about the (Carter)AVS. As I understand it, the Edelbrock AVS would be almost the same. I haven't been able to work on this since last September due to having a triple bypass but I must decide on which way to go by this spring. Again thank you and any other suggestions are welcomed.
HAYU





m37boblee Your float levels could be to high, causing it to run rich-smell raw gas in exhaust. If you have had a backfire you might have bad "power valves"(inside the carb). 413's came with square bore manifolds and small holley carbs. Holleys are good IF you want to tinker with them a lot. If you replace it I would reccomend an AVS Edelbrock carb- they are very good carbs and easy to live with. It will bolt right on, with perhaps some fuel line mods

[bherder]

Up until recently, the town I work for had a 76' Dodge D-800 dump truck/snow plow with a 413 in it. I don't know if it was 'stock' or not, (I doubt it) but it had a generic Holley 3310, vacuum secondaries, electric choke, 750 cfm, I believe....

The truck was old, used and abused (300,000 hard miles on it) but that carb was just about the only thing that didn't give me any probs.

I like Holley carbs, you just have to be willing to spend the extra time to "dial em' in" exactly right... ;)

Hey! How did this get reposted, without me reposting it??? :D

[HayU]

bherder, I can't answer that.....lol

[bherder]

bherder, I can't answer that.....lol

Eh, no matter... :D

Anywho, Holleys/Edelbrocks/Carters.... They're kinda' like how you like your steak cooked. Everyone has their favorite and it is what it is, ya know? :D

Actually, I think a 600 cfm carb (Whatever the brand) is way too small for a 413... Great for a 318/360, but anything above 400 cubes, I'd go for 700-750 cfm... (Remember, you're also trying to pull a huge, heavy, shoebox down the road at 60 mph ;) )
Milage? It's a motorhome... Your'e not suppose to worry about stuff like that :D :D :D

If you're not sure/into tinkering with carbs, then the Edelbrock is the way to go... (Especially if you gotta' pull the doghouse off the floor every time you wanna dink with it... If your motorhome is anything like a van, it gets to be a real PITA after a while...) You can pretty much 'set and forget' that carb.

I think Holleys are a better performing carb, but you gotta spend the time tweeking them. I'll also give them a 'hands down' plus for ease of setting float level, changing jets, and if you need to find parts for them.

And as others have said, switching over to electronic ignition would be a huge plus.

[HayU]

Thanks again bhurder...I agree about a 600cfm being too small. That is what my mechanic put on and I think he was mistaken. I am going to go with a 750 cmf, just don't know if it will be a Holly or Idelbrock.
Yes also to the electronic ignition if and when I can get the carburetor correct.
HayU





Anywho, Holleys/Edelbrocks/Carters.... They're kinda' like how you like your steak cooked. Everyone has their favorite and it is what it is, ya know?

Actually, I think a 600 cfm carb (Whatever the brand) is way too small for a 413... Great for a 318/360, but anything above 400 cubes, I'd go for 700-750 cfm... (Remember, you're also trying to pull a huge, heavy, shoebox down the road at 60 mph )
Milage? It's a motorhome... Your'e not suppose to worry about stuff like that

If you're not sure/into tinkering with carbs, then the Edelbrock is the way to go... (Especially if you gotta' pull the doghouse off the floor every time you wanna dink with it... If your motorhome is anything like a van, it gets to be a real PITA after a while...) You can pretty much 'set and forget' that carb.

I think Holleys are a better performing carb, but you gotta spend the time tweeking them. I'll also give them a 'hands down' plus for ease of setting float level, changing jets, and if you need to find parts for them.

And as others have said, switching over to electronic ignition would be a huge plus.
__________________

[Speed Dragon]

I'd go Edelbrock. You don't want to have to tune evry time you take a trip. Although, if you get someone who's good with them, a Holley can be set and forgot. My dad has a Holley on his Chevy rollback, hasn't had any problems since we had our guy build it about 6 months ago.

[HayU]

Thanks SD....I'm kinda leaning that direction also. It is a toss up between a 750 Edelbrock or a 770 Holly Truck avenger