I tried to post on the one thread about this topic, but it's closed.
Unless I am sadly mistaken, the 4.7L engine is what is called a "speed density" intake system. This means there is no mass airflow sensor, therefore any increase in airflow into the engine goes un-noticed by the rest of the system. The only way to get any benefit from a simple filter drop in is to reprogram the PCM so it knows it's getting more air. Otherwise, you guys that think you're seeing fuel mileage gains and performance gains are imagining things. The Hemi is the same type of system.
So someone who actually KNOWS please correct me if I am wrong about the 4.7L But I am positive the Hemi is that way.
FreeLantz
08-24-2006, 11:12 AM
I'm pretty sure the K&N filter made a slight difference in horsepower on my truck -- I can feel it. My Flowmaster muffler helped even more. :D
Neither made any impact on fuel economy though.
graythang
08-24-2006, 11:31 AM
Strange because Mopar performance sells their variation of a CAI and they claim with test argument data that their’s out performs all others (of course)! This must mean they make the adjustments to the PCM when they install the Mopar CAI system. If you order it and install it yourself than the PCM will not changed for the CAI. There is a Mopar club that owns their own system computer collectively I read about. They are making their own adjustments to member’s vehicles.
34504
08-25-2006, 06:22 AM
It may not help abundantly, but we all know it does not hurt it, either. I installed an AirRaid system on mine, and to be perfectly honest, really have not noticed any increase in acceleration. The sound is nice, though. And with the exhaust work makes a nice combination of sounds at different speeds. I am assured that it is getting all the air it can use, and is not deprived of any through the tortuous path of the stock system. I am a believer that any improvements that can be made on the intake and exhaust side of the engine certainly will not hurt it. Although some calibrations would probably be in order to take advantage of the modifications. :)
powerfulhemi
08-25-2006, 10:05 AM
You're right, it can't hurt. I think I will get the KN when my stock one goes filthy bad.
loosescrews
11-18-2006, 02:54 AM
I just installed K&N 63-1546 today,
It is Very Loud. I want the power however I drive a lot on Bluetooth Cell phone. Just don't know if this is going to work.
I will keep you posted.
AdidasCJ
11-18-2006, 11:23 PM
if you dont want it feel free to send it my way. I LOVE the sound of the intake when your in the high end RPMS!
Josh Brown
11-18-2006, 11:40 PM
The aftermarket CAI actually do hurt but also gain. I've seen Dyno charts comparing them and there is a signifigant loss of TQ and HP in the loser RPMS. The loss is all the way up to about 2000rpm then it slowly gained power and was only a few HP at about redline. This was on a Cummins but I figure it's the same on gas since when I had my Hemi i had a AEM intake and removed it and sold it on ebay because of the loss I felt in low rpms. I had to put my foot into it more to overcome the loss. On the dyno chart I'm looking at right now it's out of a new magazine called 8-lug, it shows a side by side comparison of a AFE intake vs stock. At 1600 there is a loss of 27 tq and 8hp. At 1700 there is a loss of 44tq and 13 hp. On the stock Cummins it doesn't provide a good gain until 2500rpm it shows a gain of 8tq and 3 hp, the max gain is 15 tq and 7hp at 2700 rpm. Now a small gain like that at redline is not worth the huge loss in the normal driving range. I would not want to lose 44tq at 1700, that is driving and towing rpm. Just food for thought and I'm sure the results would be different if the truck had some other good mods and needed the air. The loss just seems incredibly huge at 1700 to me. Stock the Cummins showed 525tq and 270hp. They got it to a total of 758 tq and 382 hp with the intake, bd programmer and exhaust. I would love to see the chart with the chip but no intake to really compare. Hope that helps.
loosescrews
11-19-2006, 02:13 PM
It has been 2 days drove about 115 miles refueled and tested MPG last night, I drove 52 miles 20 in the city 32 on the Highway.
15.32 MPG Personal Best for this truck.
As far as the loud sound if i stay out of the pedal Can still use U- Connect bluetooth.
My truck normally gets 12.5- 13.9 MPG, I got 14.2 once.
:rck:
loosescrews
11-20-2006, 09:59 PM
Just checked again tonight, Still driving easy, mostly traffic and city,
14.6 Mpg, So in two tanks i have beaten my previous mpg both times. Looks like the K&N has helped.
loosescrews
11-21-2006, 01:49 AM
14.06 Mpg not 14.6
USMC5593
12-07-2006, 12:45 PM
I have been wanting to get one since I got my 07 dodge 1500 quad cab but don't want to spend the 200-300 and loose low end tq/hp or not get the gains that are advertised. why is it that no one can figure out if they have a MAP or a "speed density" intake system I'm sure that it has a part description and part number for ref. ???????????????
Any way I am thinking about making mine out of 4" tubing and insulating it and putting a dry flow filter on it, any thoughts?
loosescrews
12-19-2006, 09:40 PM
I think that would be ok, I purchased mine new from amazon.com $208.00 or 212 with shipping.
I saw one with a modified true flow pipe to stock air box. That is wha I would do if I did it again. I would use a drop in KnN filter. Had one before and liked it.
From what I have read it seems the engine gets enough air from stock box. Mine is pretty loud when you click into passing gear.
I think i did lose a little in the low end, still trying to figure out how to get back. I did change plugs to bosch fusion helped a little, I feel the computer is working against me.
I just drove it to vegas today. seemed about the same. Will check MPG tomorrow when I fill up.
I am considering jet chip stage 1 ( any recomendations, I just don't want to put 92 octaine, I run 87 always.)
ruppert
01-08-2007, 05:24 AM
Just installed K & N Air Charger kit to my 06 Dakota R/T. Throttle response has greatly improved along w/ a noticeable HP increase. Waiting to see what it does to the mileage, although it's been hard not to have a lead foot.
BACKnBLACK'06
01-08-2007, 03:45 PM
I just purchased the 63-1546 and I am waiting on arrival. I am very excited. On every Dodge I have owned, I have had a CAI...but not with 4.7L V-8. On my '97 Avenger ES I had a 2.5L V-6 with a Dreamspeed True CAI and on my '02 Stratus R/T Sedan I had a 2.7L V-6 with a F-5 Performance Short Ram CAI. On each, the HP and gas mileage was improved and throttle response was tremendous.
DAMN!! I can't wait!
05Dakota CC
01-08-2007, 10:11 PM
I went from stock, then to a K&N drop in air filter, then a TrueFlow Air Intake kit with foam filter and now i have the AirAid Intake Kit 300-175 I believe.
TrueFlow has done tests between the metal tube and the plastic tube and the results were pretty much the same, The air isnt in the tube long enough to make a difference in the air temp. IMO Just getting rid of the stock air filter made a difference in response to my truck. I only just installed the AirAid a couple, few weeks ago and only have driven it about 6 or so times but anyway,... I love the sound of the air being sucked in thru the shaker and the intake.
I dunno that much about engines and stuff but I felt a difference between each of the different setups I've had. I believe the current is the best so far.
Jim.
kubihibi
01-09-2007, 12:40 PM
... there is a signifigant loss of TQ and HP in the loser RPMS...This was on a Cummins but I figure it's the same on gas since when I had my Hemi i had a AEM intake and removed it and sold it on ebay because of the loss I felt in low rpms.... it's out of a new magazine called 8-lug...On the stock Cummins it doesn't provide a good gain until 2500rpm it shows a gain of 8tq and 3 hp, the max gain is 15 tq and 7hp at 2700 rpm.... I would love to see the chart with the chip but no intake to really compare. Hope that helps.
Its a diesel, man... it operates on a different set of rules than a gasoline engine. Apples and oranges. Only thing similar is internal combustion. You cannot compare a turbo diesel to a n/a gas engine.
I'm pretty sure the K&N filter made a slight difference in horsepower on my truck -- I can feel it. My Flowmaster muffler helped even more. :D
Neither made any impact on fuel economy though.
You dont feel horse power. You feel torque. Horse power does not exist. It is just a mathamatical equation to give a value for when your engine produces mechanical power. horsepower = rpm x torque / 5252
Dakotah18
02-11-2007, 12:57 PM
So technically he did feel the horsepower if that equation equals "horsepower". If 2+2=4, in the end you have 4.
Just giving you a hard time, couldn't help myself.
Later
loosescrews
02-18-2007, 01:05 AM
Ok how do we reprogram the pcm so it knows we have the intake. Their has to be a way to get the extra power out of this engine. I have been looking and it seems the only difference between the 4.7 and the high output is tuning is this correct.
How do I tune my 4.7 to get the extra power
any suggestions
BACKnBLACK'06
02-19-2007, 08:42 AM
that's a good question, loosescrews. I would like to know myself.
Daveo
02-24-2007, 04:11 PM
The HO also has different heads. Could be a different cam also. My HO has HO on the webbing on the heads. It can be seen on the passenger side looking down under the A/C compressor.
David
highdollar
04-13-2007, 07:57 PM
h.o. has diff cams, and thinner head gaskets..{only half as thick as the reg. magnum 4.7 as I understand it**
$
05Dakota CC
04-13-2007, 11:14 PM
Fuel Injection Ports?
bkjtimp
04-15-2007, 11:42 AM
Went to Pep Boys...Picked up a cone filter (Spectre Power Adder)....Also some flanges and ducting to duct from the inside of the cone filter to the factory cold air pickup on the right inner fender. I coupled it to my Airaid Modular Intake Tube I already had. So now the area of the cone (the end/center) that allows the most "suction" is vented directly to the fender air....Should be no water issues....And little issues due to no "heat shield" because most air is coming from the fender well. I think it worked out well. $65.00 for the filter, ducting, and the two flanges.
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t107/BSTII/CAI-1200.jpg
05Dakota CC
04-15-2007, 01:47 PM
Dont you think it might get more air without the tube going to the fender?
I would think anything other than wide open would be a restriction on it. I don't believe the fender duct is any type of ram air but the air would be cooler then the engine compartment air. It might help to make the black flex tube shorter. Not sure what happens under there at 80mph and if it is going to suck air in thru that tube it'll collapse and make itself shorter and i'm not sure what effect that'll have either after awhile of it doing that every time you take your foot off the gas and then giving it gas again over and over.
I wonder how much more pvc would have cost ya.
Great Idea Tho. I Like It.
Jim.
bkjtimp
04-15-2007, 04:16 PM
It's tubing that is designed for this application....By Spectre Performance....It's rigid enough that I don't see it collapsing under the suction......And I don't see that it's restricting the air input on the end---the end is 3" on the cone filter and the hose is 3" as well-same diameter....The tubing could be shorted if I put a 45 degree bend before the filter, but I wanted the straighter air path---.....Thanks for your suggestion though!!!!
Bigbrother
09-15-2007, 09:20 PM
What is the difference between the K&N 63 and 77 series?
Josh Brown
09-16-2007, 12:20 PM
Its a diesel, man... it operates on a different set of rules than a gasoline engine. Apples and oranges. Only thing similar is internal combustion. You cannot compare a turbo diesel to a n/a gas engine.
You dont feel horse power. You feel torque. Horse power does not exist. It is just a mathamatical equation to give a value for when your engine produces mechanical power. horsepower = rpm x torque / 5252
You may say that but My Hemi felt an awful loss of power going up hill at tlower rpms.
Josh Brown
09-16-2007, 12:23 PM
How is that thing designed? It looks to me there is just a hole in the end of the cone filter and the air is just traveling through the center of the filter and not actually through the filter. Is that how it is or not? Anyone else see what I'm talking about?
Daveo
09-16-2007, 09:35 PM
I thought the same thing. If it's like some others I have seen the air from the fender is bypassing the filter completely.
david
nanaki
09-17-2007, 09:31 AM
I work for an Auto part store and sale those exact filters. What is going on is that on the end of the filter a hole is cut and another conical filter is actually inside the main filter itself. The problem I see with design however is the lack of a heat shield around the filter to prevent it from sucking in hot exhaust gases and air. Which will increase the overall temp of the air and change the mixture ratio though it will flow more air than a stock filter.
Daveo
09-17-2007, 10:25 AM
I understand now. I agree with you also. The air is going to take the path of least resistance. Which in this case seams to be from the engine bay. The hose isn't going to hurt, but how much will it really help?
David
nanaki
09-17-2007, 11:42 AM
I can see it benefiting at wide open when driving above 35 due to the high pressure in the wheel well like that of the truck bed because of aerodynamics and fluid motion. If you don't know what I mean Mythbusters did an experiment that actually was very accurate in design, I was impressed.
On the downside however is rain. Cause as anyone who has ever driven highway speed in the rain will know the larger a vehicle the more mist they throw into the air and the bigger the pain they are to get passed by. Well with the direct flow tube to the inside cone of the filter I would worry about him sucking in to much water during a storm. Because by directly sealing the tube to the fender he removed the factory pieces put in place to prevent water from entering the engine such as that foam seal around the fender, the u-bent intake pipe which collects water on its surface due to the temperature difference between it and the incoming air and, there is that the filter is located above the intake hose so that if it was to become saturated with water gravity would pull it to collect at the bottom of the box.
Hate to be a kill joy but with a degree in engineering thats how i see the system.
Bigbrother
10-14-2007, 09:51 PM
Just installed my K&N 63 Series. Haven't noticed much of a performance difference. Does anyone know if I have to have the PCM reset or something?
superdart
10-16-2007, 07:52 AM
Ok, on my old 2002 4.7L, I built a custom CAI for it and did back to back (same day) dyno comparisons. It was a 3" pipe with a shield and K&N 9" cone filter. It showed a true gain of 9.2hp and 26ft/lbs.
I built a second kit and put it on my friends 3.7L/6spd Ram, and he was amazed at how much better it pulled the hills.
I have yet to install a CAI on my 2007. I'm waiting until I get dyno #2 in (synthetic fluid upgrade).
Here is the same kit, with the pipe wrapped in header tape. The air may not be in the pipe very long, but after a 30 mile drive on a 90 degree day, that pipe was less than 70 degrees. All that heat is going in the engine. I also chopped the top of the shield off and added a cover to trap air, rather than let it flow up and over the filter.
