"intermittent dead gauges" syndrome

[gtomike]

My wife has a 97 Grand Caravan SE. The vehicle has 124,000 miles. It has the 3.3l with a 4 speed auto trans. Power door locks, front A/C, and no factory alarm. For the most part his van runs pretty well. :) About three years ago (around 95,000 miles) the gauges in the instrument cluster began to act up. The speedo, tach, temp, battery gauge, transmission gear position indicators as well as the fuel gauge would go dead all of a sudden. The check engine light and the ABS light would be displayed when this happens. This condition can last as long as a few days or up to a few weeks of daily driving. Then with out any warning the door locks will suddenly engage and the gauges will come alive the check engine light and ABS light will go out and be replaced by the service engine light.The van will always start/run when this happens. I have only two error codes 1695 and 1698. I have tried must of the posted fixes for this problem, pulling the IOD fuse, disconnecting the the battery cables, checking for loose connections on the BCM, but all of these seam to be just temporary band-aides, and addressing just the symptoms. After researching this subject for over a month on the inter net at several different auto forums I'm leaning toward a cracked or faulty solder joint on the clusters PCB. :IDEA: I believe that Chrysler knows that this is a big problem and just as costly for them to make good on, so they pretend that they never heard of this condition when a customer comes to them with this complaint. :VHOT:
Before I pull mine out again for a much closer inspection I would like to hear from anyone who has actually re-soldered or replaced their PCB successfully. I would like to know exactly what was done and if that was a final solution to the problem.:help: Please send photos/links concerning this matter. I'm determined to fix this van, one way or another.
Thanks Mike

[Chet42]

You bave a bad or shorted BCM (Body control module) This module controls, dash, door locks, radio etc. On your van the module is under the middle of the dash attached to a central pillar, check the wiring harness and the ground for loose or frayed wires. If wires and ground check out its probably the module itself. Junkyards are full of these modules for cheap. I picked up 2 for $15.00 and i always keep a spare in my glove box.

Chet.

[charger72]

I respectfully disagree with Chet42. I have had the BCM on my 97 rebuilt twice by Pytheon Electronics in CA and the gauge problem still exists. Rebuilding it did fix my lack of running lights. The BCM on the 97's is under the dash on the drivers side. I have heard also about the solder joint in the cluster but I haven't gotten to tearing it appart to see if it will fix my problem. If you decide to get one from a junk yard, make certain to get one from your model year with all the same power equipment you have.

[hwystar]

gtomike, you are correct about the cracked or faulty solder joint on the clusters PCB.
I first noticed this problem when the instrument lights started going out and then the gauges would quit as well.
You have to remove the whole cluster and solder each one of the pins to the PCB
I used a soldering gun as it was hot enough to get the solder flowing and make good contact. My 89 Voyager has 2 plugs in the back and I soldered all the pins in both plugs.
Problem solved.

[charger72]

hwystar, did you heat sink the connections? I'm just wondering if there is a possibility of frying anything in the cluster. Thanks!

[hwystar]

No, I did not heatsink anything.
I just get the pins hot enough to get the solder flowing and create a bond between the pins and the circuitboard trace, that is where the bad connetion ocurrs.
I had originally used an ohm meter to test these points between the trace and the pins and thats how I found out it was faulty.

[charger72]

Thanks for the info. My son will be doing his 97 during the memorial weekend. I be supervising. Lot's of fun for him!

[cansb]

how much trubble to get to thebcm?

[96Grand]

Did you ever do any diagnostic/calibration tests on the cluster?

Cluster Diagnostics/Calibration

SELF DIAGNOSTIC TEST
To activate self diagnostic program:


With the ignition switch in the OFF position, depress the TRIP and RESET buttons.
While holding the TRIP and RESET button turn the ignition switch to the ON position.
Continue to hold the TRIP and RESET buttons until the word code appears in the odometer windows (about five seconds ) then release the buttons. If a problem exists, the system will display diagnostic trouble codes. If no problem exists the code 999 (End Test) will momentarily appear.
DTC'S

110 Memory Fault in cluster
111 Calibration fault in cluster
905 No CCD bus messages from TCM
921 Odometer fault from BCM
940 No CCD bus messages from PCM
999 End of Codes

[AZRAM4X4]

i would also check any and all grounds to the power center and to the cluster ,in addtion to the other suggestions.

[ljryjj]

Hi hwystar, very good info! My 98 Grand Caravan had this intermittent problem for several months, until the guage display never come up last weekend.

I took the instrument cluster off today. I did not notice the same connector as your photo shows. But there is one DIP connector(REFDES: J1) on the cluster PCB. I can see without magnifying glass that the solder on one pin has a circular crack. It's the ground pin as I read the PCB. After I resolder this pin, the gauge display goes back to normal.

I have an explanation for this failure: There is big return current flowing along this pin, so much so that the solder could melt. When it cools down after the ignition is turned off, the solder tends to shrink to create the crack. This is the culprit of the intermittent problem. I have seen too many failures caused by this in CRT TV/monitors.

[hwystar]

Yes, I also keep finding cracked solder joints in many tv/monitors that I repair.
The picture I posted above is only a sample from an older Caravan I have that kept giving me trouble but it seems to be the same problem with the newer ones.
Everytime I buy a newer van I usually have to do some wiring upgrades because the factory wiring cannot handle the loads.

[gtomike]

Hi Charger72
You said that your son was going to remove and inspect his 97 cluster over the holiday weekend. I'm interested to learn if he got to the cluster and if he did what did he find?

Mike

[charger72]

He decided to go out and have fun. He's the one who has to drive it the most so I didn't push. Plus he figured out he could rap the dash on top to get them to come back. :banghead: I'll have to pester him this weekend. School's out so he has no excuse. I'll definitely post back when we have something.

[cansb]

thanks 96 grand

I will look at it as soon as I can ,,,,,,,,,,,,kids softball and baseball and life in general!!

cansb

[charger72]

Can you believe it? I finally got the kid to take the thing appart and low and behold, the solder joints were both cracked. We fixed it on Saturday....so far so good!!

[TNCaravan]

Charger, I did the exact same repair to my 98 after reading this and several other threads about the solder fix. I did my repair on sunday. I haven't had any problems yet either, however I don't see anymore extremely hot days coming up. Mine only acted up when it was really hot outside. Let me know if you have any problems with yours. Thanks to everyone here who posted info on how to do this repair. It's a great feeling, taking all that stuff apart and actually fixing it!

[webbee]

Sorta late to this party, but here is the solder fix in photos. (http://www.ingriddijkers.com/CaravanPics.html)

[charger72]

It's a great feeling, taking all that stuff apart and actually fixing it!
You got that right. Time will tell....

[TroutTrooper]

Woohoo!!! I finally found someone with the same problem that I am having. I've replaced the BCM and of course didn't fix it. I am thinking about tearing into the instrument panel on Monday. Was it tough to get to?

[charger72]

Not too bad. I think my 17yr old son had it out in less than an hour with me looking over his shoulder. Just be careful popping out the trim bezel around the cluster. Use the pics in the above link, it shows what you have to take off to get at the cluster. Then you have to disassemble the cluster once it's out of the van to get at the PCB to resolder. We did that on a table. He also found it easier to remove the screws holding the headlight switch panel to the trim than disconnecting the wires. When you do it this way, the switch stays with the vehicle while the rest of the panel comes off. Good Luck!

[TNCaravan]

I am thinking about tearing into the instrument panel on Monday. Was it tough to get to?

I highly recommend doing this fix, it's fairly simple and only took me a couple of hours. To answer your question, no it is not tough to get to. However if you have the 3 speed transmission, it has a cable that runs from the shift lever on the column to the instrument cluster. The cable is what moves the indicator on the "PRND21". Make sure to remove the cable from the shift column before trying to pull the gauge cluster out. If you don't you can break the plastic on the back of the gauge cluster and you will no longer be able to see what gear you are in. Thankfully I figured that out before I broke the plastic on the back. I bent it a little, but didn't break it. I think the 4 speed "PRND21" is electronic and doesn't have the manual cable. Good luck.

[charger72]

Yep, the 4 speed is electronic.

[TNCaravan]

Yep, the 4 speed is electronic.

Lucky you! Haynes manual doesn't tell 3 speed owners to disconnect that shift cable for the base instrument cluster! You can't just pull it out of the back of the cluster, it has to come off the column shifter. But I figured it out, and all is well. I couldn't be happier with the repair, and all the folks on this forum that provided info on it. Thanks very much!

[TroutTrooper]

Hey Thanks,
You guys have saved me alot of money. I'm glad to know that I was looking in the right place. I don't feel like a complete looser. I'm going on vacation so I'll probably fix it tomorrow. Looks like I'm going to need to replace the idler pulley as well.
I can't remember who asked, but getting to the BCM wasn't too bad. It took a little messing around, but I had it replaced in under an hour.

[gtomike]

Hi everyone!! Well I finely got around to pulling my cluster out, I got tired of it acting up. Removing it took about 15 minutes (I timed myself) It was not that difficult (the whole project took about 2 hours). Once I disassembled the cluster and removed the PCB, I found the faulty cold solder joint. It was just as so many subscribers had described. I used a big magnifying glass to get a better look at the remaining joints. Just the two joints for the black wire and the black/lt grn wires were suspect. Absolutely these joints were bad. I re-flowed each joint and added a little more solder for good measure. Once I reinstalled the cluster, reconnected the battery,the "service engine soon" light and the ABS light were not on. I also checked the DTC for the P1695 and P1698 codes, they were gone. I did this repair on 9/11/06 (that date will be easy to remember) so only time will tell if it is really fixed. I'm encluding a photo of the faulty joints, they are circled in red.

[charger72]

Those are the same two joints we had to resolder too.

[junbalingit]

Hi guys!

I have the same problem about the cluster going dead. Sometimes the clusters would come on while driving but this seldom happens. When I read the treads here I decided to do the solder solution. Unfortunately it did not fix my problem and my cluster is still dead. I've also done the battery disconnect to reset the computer and still no fix. I also checked the ground of the connector, but still nothing. Do you think it is now the BCM? Is there a test I could do to determine if the BCM is toasts?

Help please.... thanks in advance.

[Maximusdodge]

any directions on getting the cluster out?

[webbee]

any directions on getting the cluster out?
Try the link in my post on page one, otherwise you should consult one of the manuals.

[Maximusdodge]

Success Success Success :rck:

~ I took out the dash and the cluster, and sure enough one of the solder points on the back of the control board (bottom right, last one in the line) was cracked. I got out my trusty solder gun ( ok borrowed my neighbors) and threw some fresh metal on it. Put it back in and all is well. I have all my gauges again. No more guessing for me, when I am low on gas or how fast I am going. It sucked having to listen for the low fuel ding Ding Ding. Thanks to all who posted here and gave me the courage and inspiration to give this a try. This might not seem like a big deal to some, but for someone like me with no car knowledge and armed only with a Phillips screw driver and this thread, it was a major accomplishment. Even impressed my wife and a couple surbanite neighbors.

Thanks again,
Max
Ohio

[XDGT03]

^^^ Kudos to all. I too have had this problem for about a year. I am changing the evaporator right now and had the cluster out for that. I just checked it and mine were also broken. I re-soldered it with a bit more metal and inspected the rest. Everything else appeared fine. I will have to wait on reporting if it fixed the problem until after I have the dash put back together (next week) but I'm sure it will be fine.

Please sticky this thread!!!

Thanks again

[rpresley]

I am having the very same problem. Two years ago I had a simular problem with the addition that the car would not start. My dealer fixed it then to the tune of $617, $435 of that was for a new printed circuit board. This time I will pull the board and solder the pins myself. I wish I would have known about this forum 2 years ago. :VHOT:

98 T&C Minivan

[XDGT03]

bump

Since the mod hasn't pinned this I guess we can just keep bumping it. The same question keeps rolling in.

[Rosa]

Thanks for bumping this topic, I don't feel so alone now. :D

I tried the following test, but the Odometer display is dead. Is this test independent of the other modules. ie should it work on the bench if I supply power to the board?

Did you ever do any diagnostic/calibration tests on the cluster?

Cluster Diagnostics/Calibration

SELF DIAGNOSTIC TEST
To activate self diagnostic program:


With the ignition switch in the OFF position, depress the TRIP and RESET buttons.
While holding the TRIP and RESET button turn the ignition switch to the ON position.
Continue to hold the TRIP and RESET buttons until the word code appears in the odometer windows (about five seconds ) then release the buttons. If a problem exists, the system will display diagnostic trouble codes. If no problem exists the code 999 (End Test) will momentarily appear.
DTC'S

110 Memory Fault in cluster
111 Calibration fault in cluster
905 No CCD bus messages from TCM
921 Odometer fault from BCM
940 No CCD bus messages from PCM
999 End of Codes

[XDGT03]

no, it won't work if it is out of the vehicle. You can get the same readings using an OBDII scan tool. Go to Auto Zone and have them do it for free.

[Rosa]

Thanks,

I moved this from the other thread. The free scan from Autozone didd't show anything.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosa
"Thanks, I did try that fuse, still nothing. At Autozone their scanner came back with a PASSED. Does that mean there are no DTCs? My gauges don't work, the abs light is on and the air warning light is now on. Shouldn't I get some kind of code back from the scanner?"



First of all, the DTC's and other information from all computer modules in your vehicle can be read through the OBDII port on your vehicle-- the catch is that you'd have to have the right scan tool. The scanner they have at AZ will only read DTCs from the engine computer (PCM) and transmission computer (TCM), it doesn't have the software to read codes from other modules so it will not read DTCs that may be stored in the BCM. That requires a Chrysler DRBIII scan tool-- a very expensive tool used by dealers and some independent shops. The DRBIII is also required to program a replacement BCM to work with your vehicle.

Before giving up though, why don't you start at the beginning and explain exactly what the problems are, how they started, when they occur, etc. Maybe we can think of something else to try. Your description above was so focused on your theory that the OBDII connector might be faulty that you didn't reall describe the underlying problem well. I assume you've checked for blown fuses of course.
__________________
1999 Durango SLT
4x4, 5.2l
Mods: B&M Supercooler, Ford OEM Remote Start/Keyless Entry/Alarm, Heated Seats

[joyttw]

I don't know how to post a link to my thread, so I'm c&p-ing my question from it:
We have a 2005 SXT that has been acting up for a month or so.

One day when I turned off the van and opened the door, I noticed the radio didn't shut off like it's supposed to. When I got back in and started the van, the dashboard didn't work at all. No lights, no gauges working at all.

I avoided driving it for a couple of weeks then tried again. The dashboard worked again, but the malfunction indicator light was on. It stayed on for a few days, then one day it went off again.

That was a couple of weeks ago. The van has been driving fine. Then today when I went to the post office and opened the van door, the radio didn't shut off again. I thought oh no. I started the van again and sure enough the dashboard didn't work. I turned it off, went into the post office, came back out, started the van, and now again the dashboard works but the malfunction indicator light is on again.

There are two things that were present that I can think of each time this problem started: 1) the day before, I filled up the gas tank and 2) the warm weather we had last month returned this week.

We've had intermittent problems with the power doors and locks not working and the air conditioning went out last month, but other than that no other recent problems.

Any ideas? Is it safe to drive?

Thanks for your input.

jfada replied:
1st get the BCM flashed, hopefully that will fix the problem.
If not then, you might have a short in your instrument panel. It could be solder problems, or a fualty wire harness. It should be safe to drive since it sounds like only your dashboard electronics are messing up. Somewhere your stereo RMS wire is touching a hot circuit, probably your MIL too. If you have a wire test kit I'd start testing the wires behind the fuse box, and inspect the wire harness' to see if there is a loose wire. Find the wires that have voltage when the car is off and inspect those 1st. Good luck with that, electrical problems suck.

Hope this helps my friend.

Do you agree? My van hasn't stalled yet, but it does have the dash board problem and intermittent dead guages. If it's only a dashboard problem, could it still stall?

[rpresley]

Your problem is some what different from mine. But the effort required to pull the instument cluster out and apply solder to the four pins on the primary connector is not that hard. I would give it a try.

rpresley

[webbee]

joyttw:
The first thing to try is to disconnect the negative wire from your battery and leave it unconnected for 1/2 hour. During the disconnection period, you should use a terminal cleaning brush to clean both the positive/negative terminals and wire connections/connectors. Any corrosion in the battery/wiring can cause alternator output problems, which ultimately affect the BCM. Corrosion problems usually produce ghost electrical problems like some of the symptoms you have. So you want to rule out charging system corrosion as the cause.
Reconnect the connections, start and test your van. This is like a cold boot on your computer and every thing resets. You will lose the radio presets, if you haven't already and any set trouble codes. I would also run the self diagnostic test, mentioned in Rosa's post, as part of the testing. As simple as all this sounds, it is known to fix some dash problems associated with the BCM.

The gas cap is also part of the system and a loose/defective cap can set trouble codes. This may be the cause of the recent trouble code. Re-tighten the cap or replace if the seal is suspect.

If the reboot doesn't work you can try the solder fix, but I think that mostly pertains to the 3ed gens (1996-2000), but it won't hurt and also rules those problems out. Check out the connector that plugs into the board and any other connectors in the area for looseness, damage or corrosion, if you do the solder fix. Also check the capacitors on the pc board for swelling/leaking/splitting. If they have failed, it's replace the capacitors or get a new/used instrument panel time. The capacitor check/fix should be preformed by anyone doing the solder fix. The capacitor problem may be only specific to certain years, as this was a capacitor manufacturing problem which was eventually ironed out.
Your 2005 may be different in the dash disassembly from those in the link pictures. You might want to check a manual for the specific procedure. I have a '99, so I don't have much experience with the fine points of the 4th gens.
The reason I don't think it's the solder problem is because of the radio symptoms. Radio, coupled with dash problems, are often BCM related.

Try the flash that was mentioned above, before replacing the BCM. If you still have the problems, I would try to replace/rebuild your BCM. Used BCMs have to be from the same year, with the same features, to work. Since the BCM stores the odometer info, used units report whatever mileage the original vehicle had when it was removed from service. I'm not much of a fan of used electric parts, so I would have mine rebuilt (sorry...I lost that link in a bookmark crash). New ones are spendy, however sometimes...due to circumstance...you have to bite the bullet.

I also agree with the advice as already given by other posters, especially checking/cleaning the wiring, connectors, etc. Doing all the cheap/sweat equity fixes first, because it can be any of those afore-mentioned parts.

I don't know about you all, but I would about rather have a root canal, than troubleshoot a wiring problem. So...I hope it turns out to be something simple for you!
As always, good luck with your project!

[djdb27]

we were having the dead instrument cluster problem as well,pulled the cluster and all solder joints were good.checked to see what other circuits were on the bcm that controls the cluster and came up with the hvac control module (the panel that controls the heating ,cooling, and defrost ) removed the module from the dash and removed the connector that runs from the bcm to the back of the control module and found that the connector had over heated and melted the plastic so a few of the pins were not making any connections.cleaned out the melted plastic and reinserted the pin and have not had any problems since.if your heating and cooling buttons to not work this is probably your problem.

[joyttw]

Thanks!

So would it be okay to drive, then, or better not?

[djdb27]

it will only take you 10 minutes to remove and inspect the contol module connector. it should be ok to drive

[junbalingit]

All of the above mentioned could be possible.
As for my case it turned out to be the radio that had and problem and thus affecting my cluster. I replaced my radio and it fixed the problem.

In your case, I would try to disconnect the power going to the radio and see what happens. If it corrects the problem then you probably need to replace the radio. If not you may want to try disconnecting another electrical equipment and see what will correct the problem. I don't see any problem driving the van in this condition, the only problem is how to gauge your speed while driving. I did it before and just cruised with the other cars.

Hope you find a fix

[joyttw]

Thanks for the replies. My husband is the one who will try these fixes, I wouldn't have a clue how to :)

[lang_dave]

I just wanted to say that the "resolder" fix described in this thread resolved my 97 Caravan's intermittent dash problem. The hardest part, as noted elsewhere, was removing the trim. I resoldered all the pins on the connector that is shown in gtomike's jpg just to be sure.

I tilted the instrument cluster towards me when I reconnected the main wire which made it very easy to reconnect. Right hand side of the cluster towards the front of the van, left side towards me.

Whole thing took me about an hour. You need a soldering iron, some solder, and two Phillips screwdrivers - one that's short for the screws that are obstructed by the driver's side door, and one with a longer shaft for some of the other screws. I used a cheap multi driver and my leatherman.

Thanks to everyone in this forum who has posted.

[pershingd]

Hello everyone - need some advice here...

Our 2000 Grand Voyager started acting up this week for my wife. She was on her way to work and the gauges went dead. They came back on, but acted up again on the way home. She noticed that when she wiggled the gear selector, things started coming back on. The check engine light came on and it scanned out as P1698.

I drove the van some this weekend and didn't have any trouble, but I'm positive that what she says happened happened. After reading this thread, it sounds like this poor soldering on the board may just be what I need to do. The van is running as well as it ever has and I've not noticed anything unusual after all this has happened.

Am I barking up the right tree on this or am I missing something?

[T'Horn]

My work truck is a 2006 Ford 350 and it was doing the exact thing you discribed , found it was a fuse that was not blow but wasn't making a good connection in the fuse box , took it out and scaped the blades with a knife and it has never done it again

[Dakotah18]

My '95 Dak does this only when it is cold, but everything works after I tap the dash a couple of times

[webbee]

pershingd and Dakotah18 it sure sounds like the solder fix is needed. Those symptoms are exactly the ones that this fix addresses.

pershingd yours differs in that it's the gear selector which restores function instead of a sharp rap/slap to the dash top. I definitely would do the fix on this van.

Dakotah18 I am uncertain if the Dakota has these problems as I have never owned/worked on those vehicles. If the dash comes apart as easy as it does in a Caravan, then I would do the fix just to rule it out. Slapping the dash top to restore function is a classic symptom of the problem in the vans.

If you do this fix, make sure you check all the cables/connectors for problems/corrosion when you have the dash apart. This can be the problem or adding to the problem along with the cracked solder joints.

The problem is caused by a wrong solder mix that was used on the 3ed gen vans, '96-'00. It may be across the entire DC line for that period or it may be just boards that were produced from certain plants. It seems to affect some vans produced during this period but not all of them.
It is important that you add a bit of new solder when you melt the spots, as this helps to correct the original solder mix to help prevent future cracking.
Do all of the solder joints that are on the connector area of the board, even though it seems to be the ground points which are usually the cracked spots.

[pershingd]

Thanks - I'll have to get on that ASAP.

The problem with the solder is due to reduced amounts of lead allowed in solder. I've got one of the dreaded 900mhz G3 iBooks that suffered from a similar situation. The solder holding the video chip to the motherboard would crack and lose connection. Apple spent quite a bit of money replacing motherboards (for free) and revising the design to eliminate the problem. I'm on my 3rd motherboard and they seem to have finally got it right (knock on wood).

David

[XDGT03]

The problem with the solder is due to reduced amounts of lead allowed in solder

I wonder how much impact this has had on the environment over what that little bit of lead would have done.


GO GREENPEACE!!!! You know trees are people too!

[webbee]

It's my understanding that the ground heats up, melting the solder, which then cools down after the power is cut. This leads to cracking or cold solder joints. I read that explanation on a forum, so it may not be right. I have also read that it's a problem with the solder mix in the robotic solderers. Again Internet forum info, not from DC.
I think lead was taken out of solder in the early '90's. That may ultimately be the problem. If you have some old acid free lead solder I might add that to the mix. Otherwise, adding any current electrical solder seems to fix the problem.

As to the lead ban, environment damage, etc...Do we really know? There are millions of houses with lead soldered pipes, which may contaminate the water running through them. Should we replace them so the babies won't get lead poisoning? Or is this someone's agenda? I don't have the answers.
I know I hate soldering with lead free solder...

[pershingd]

Who knows...

It sometimes seems like the more we try to fix the environment, we manage to find something worse to mess it up with.

David

[nicodemus13]

Just wanted to thank anyone that has posted about the gauge problems/ van not wanting to start. I found this site and read about the fix for this problem before I went and spent a ton of money trying to get it tracked down. I pulled the gauges, looked at the problematic red plug on the circuit board and the solder joints looked exactly like they were described (round cracks around the joint). I did the check where you start the van w/out the gauges and it fired right up. I had my brother-in-law resolder the joints and I put everything back together after I enjoyed some chicken nuggets and fries for dinner and the van has started up great since and no more gauge problems.

Sweet site and great advise!!! :rck:

AC

[maxwell1295]

we were having the dead instrument cluster problem as well,pulled the cluster and all solder joints were good.checked to see what other circuits were on the bcm that controls the cluster and came up with the hvac control module (the panel that controls the heating ,cooling, and defrost ) removed the module from the dash and removed the connector that runs from the bcm to the back of the control module and found that the connector had over heated and melted the plastic so a few of the pins were not making any connections.cleaned out the melted plastic and reinserted the pin and have not had any problems since.if your heating and cooling buttons to not work this is probably your problem.
Thanks! :rck:

That ended up being the problem with our van (2000 Voyager). After 2 weeks of trying everything including replacing the cluster (to no avail), I was stumped. After reading your post, it all made sense. I remembered that in addition to the dead cluster, the HVAC was stuck on defrost. We were able to control the fan speed and, but couldn't get it to do anything other than defrost. I just figured the cluster problem must've caused the heater to default to the defrost setting.

I removed the panel and disconnected the 2 plugs. It turns out that the plastic was melted at the end of one of the connectors (see pics attached). Once I cleaned it up, everything works like a charm. Guages are back and the heater controls work like they should. Is till think I'm going to have to replace that connector. At least I know that if it happens again, I'll have a pretty good idea of what's causing the problem.

[bdmills]

hey I have a 97 grand voyager LE with all the same symptoms as you and I did remove the speedo cluster and PCB and looking at it I saw those cracks that everyone discussed. So I resoldered all of the main pins on the main wiring harness to the cluster. Sorry no pictures but if you follow the instructions in a haynes manual the dash comes apart easily and only took me a couple of hours to OUT, repair, IN and test run. everything worked as it should and I found a few new lamps came on on start up. It also ran much better didnt feel like it was slightly out of time now. But for all who wonder if this small little repair doesnt magically fix alot of other symptoms it sure did for me. I read alot of information trying to figure this out and with everyone discussing this different items and suggestions this seems to be a great way to help those who investigate and do their own repairs. So rather than not replying and informing all I am taking the time to reply and let know. :rck:

[webbee]

...It turns out that the plastic was melted at the end of one of the connectors (see pics attached). Once I cleaned it up, everything works like a charm. Guages are back and the heater controls work like they should. Is till think I'm going to have to replace that connector. At least I know that if it happens again, I'll have a pretty good idea of what's causing the problem.
I was wondering if you have replaced the connector yet? I'm actually quite surprised that you were able to get that one to work after seeing your pictures. That last receptacle looks pretty crispy to me!
Can you get the whole harness at the wreaking yard, is it better to replace it from the $tealer or does the connector come alone as a replacement part? I haven't encountered that part of the problem, but inquiring minds want to know... :)

[wdgold]

I to have had this problem for awhile now. I did the instrument solder fix like was suggested and that seemed to fix it until I started having problems again.
The gauges finally went out for good and not only that there were vibrating noises coming from different relays under the dash at the fuse terminal and under the hood at the engine fuse control box. Does anyone know what the hec is going on with this problem.

[webbee]

I to have had this problem for awhile now. I did the instrument solder fix like was suggested and that seemed to fix it until I started having problems again.
The gauges finally went out for good and not only that there were vibrating noises coming from different relays under the dash at the fuse terminal and under the hood at the engine fuse control box. Does anyone know what the hec is going on with this problem.
If you've done the solder fix and it's still ongoing, then it's probably a BCM, alternator/battery, wiring, connector, ground, capacitors on the PC board, or something else problem. It could be the solder fix needs to be redone (does it currently respond to the dash top slap?). Other than the gauges being completely dead, do you have any other symptoms? I guess you start with one of the fixes and keep going until you find what finally fixes it. Loads of possibilities suggested in this thread. I think I would start at the connector which plugs into the PC board, also checking the PC board capacitors, tracing the wiring back to the BCM, then go to the battery, terminals, wiring and alternator & connecting wiring back to the BCM. I would have the BCM rebuilt instead of getting a new or wreaking yard one, and that would be my last try at it. In other words do the cheaper fixes first. I'm guessing it's the BCM based on the relay noise but...

I hate to be so vague, but if the solder fix doesn't take, then it's a trouble shooting problem and you just have to go through each item until you find the faulty part(s). No easy answers, however, do the work and you will eventually prevail. What year & motor is your van just for added info?

[wdgold]

Just to clarify what is the BCM and PC and where are they located?

Thanks

[wdgold]

I found the problem with the dead gauges problem it was the + terminal on the battery, extremely corroded. Now I need to program the computer, lights flashing on the button controls on the heater/AC panel. Found out the 2 buttons that you need to push together to get it to program. I was told to program it with just the key turned on not running, well I started the computer reprogramming while it was running so I shut it off and tried to do it again while the key was just turned on like I was told, not running, and I can't get it to work again. Should of let it program while running. Now I am afraid I will have to take it in to get it to program. Any ideas?

[webbee]

BCM = Body Control Module located behind the fuse panel, which is on the drivers side below the lower dash.
PC = Printed Circuit board, which is the board the solder fix is done to, in the dash, generally any printed circuit board.

Edit to add:
No idea on the reprogram, but may be someone else will chime in. You might try disconnecting the battery for 10 minutes, then reconnect and try the reprogram trick again. Don't know if it will work but...

Thats great you solved the problem that quickly. For some reason corrosion really fouls up these vans. Be sure to look under the cable insulation to see if there is any green/white powder corrosion. If you find corrosion, fixing it requires replacing the cable(s). This problem directly affects the BCM. Also make sure you wire brush the terminals until they are shiny.

[DonAngell]

I have a 98 GC with the intermittent no-start and instruments going dead problem. I have been beating on the panel to fix it for a year now. When it first happened, I took it to the dealer who read the codes in the history but could not replicate the problem. So they cleaned and tightened the battery cables and charged me $165. They told me if it happened again they would have to replace the BCM. I stumbled across this old thread and now thanks to your detailed pictures I have resoldered the cracked solder connections and fixed the problem.

[jpod]

I found the problem with the dead gauges problem it was the + terminal on the battery, extremely corroded. Now I need to program the computer, lights flashing on the button controls on the heater/AC panel. Found out the 2 buttons that you need to push together to get it to program. I was told to program it with just the key turned on not running, well I started the computer reprogramming while it was running so I shut it off and tried to do it again while the key was just turned on like I was told, not running, and I can't get it to work again. Should of let it program while running. Now I am afraid I will have to take it in to get it to program. Any ideas?

Hey gang. I used the info in this thread to fix my 97's cranky gauge cluster probem. Thanks to all, who provided the helpful info.

After the fix, I have two blinking lights on the intermittent wiper buttons I believe, and now the A/C associated buttons will not work. Hence, no defogging ability. You talk about programming the computer to perhaps resolve this. I cannot find that info in the thread. I'm wondering did you fix this and If so, how? If reprogramming the computer is necessary, how do you do this? If there is another fix to this would someone please share? Thanks so much for the help...

[DonAngell]

The A/C control loses its calibration if the battery is disconnected for a while.
Try this procedure from other posts.
TO INITIATE TESTS:
Start the engine
Set Blower motor ON HIGH
Set Mode position to Panel
Set Temperature to Cold (Both slide pots if equipped)
Depress WASH and REAR WIPER button simultaneously for 5 Seconds (Until all LED's light)
RESULTS:
All LED's will turn on for 5 Seconds
Calibration Test is running when REAR WIPER and INTERMITTENT are alternately flashing. Cooldown test is running if A/C and RECIRC are alternately flashing.
Acceptable results is REAR WIPER LED is the only LED flashing. Push Rear Wiper to exit.

[ddemille_99]

First off I would like to thank all for the great advice. I had already pulled my gauge cluster apart 2 times before finding this post. Once to see if the connectors had pulled out, and then a second time because the "Tap the dash" fix caused the needle on the speedo to jump off. Finally I found this thread and fixed it last night. All is well except...

In the Middle of the gauges intermittently going out on us (about a week after it started) we tapped the dash to get it to come back, and the all the sudden the Speedo was reeding about 20 mi off. I could do the BIT on it and it would all move fine, and come back with a 999 (all good) code. Welp... finally the gauges would not come back on (thus the needle falling off from tapping the dash) and I found this fix. I got it soldered, and followed all the traces to ensure there was no more damage. The break on my solder was simply a vibration break. No cold joints there. The reason I include this though is because now that my gauges are powered, my speedo is still messed up...

This time the gauge does not even budge until around 60 (per the wiffey who drives it). I ran the test on it and the guage does not move untill the second spot, and then it stays lagging one position behid all the others. The code however shows all good. I have been told that I can pull a fuse that will allow it to essentially do a hard restart for just the speed monitoring system. I will look for that thread again, but I was wondering if anyone else has seen or heard of this problem. I will update later if and when I get it fixed.

[webbee]

Try pulling the IOD fuse located in the front engine compartment for a few minutes (you will lose the radio presets). As far as the speedo goes, if that doesn't fix it, then you may have to replace the gauge cluster. Hopefully you can get one from the junk yard. If you have to go that route, do the solder fix before you install the replacement unit.

As always, good luck with your project!

[XDGT03]

Sounds like the speedo got damaged or the needle is off from where it is supposed to be.

[ddemille_99]

Thank you for the info. have not hit the IOD yet as I have been busy, but going to do that today at lunch break. will have my wife bring me some lunch. As to the needle not being in the right spot I had considered that. I am thinking of pulling the needle back off, running the BIT check once again then putting the needle back on. if that does not work then I get to get a new cluster... not really wanting to do that one though. lol Thank you all.

[Reiley10]

There is a lot of great advice on this topic of dead gauges. I have tried several things listed on this topic, however, I am still having issues with my 98 Grand Caravan and the dead gauges. From about March into April, the gauges would periodically die and then come back on...very hit and miss. Sometimes, a single pound of the dash would bring them back on. Since mid-April, the gauges (all except the gas gauge) are dead. The mileage is also not working. I cleaned the battery terminals and connecters up with a wire brush, reconnected them, took it for a drive, and the gauges worked for about 15 miles and then went dead again. I pulled the IOD fuse a couple times and had no luck there either. Finally, I pulled the cluster out. Thanks for the pictures, these were a huge help. After pulling out the cluster, I checked the BCM but did not find any cracks on the solder joints. I checked them with a magnifying glass and all looks good. I wiggled each pin on the red plug and looked for movement on the back side with the solder joints but had no luck seeing anything loose. I can drive the van just fine with the cluster out and the red connector just hanging there...the turn signals work, locks work, power windows work, horn works, radio works. The board has a stamped part number of 04812451 and I have called several junk yards for this BCM and nobody seems to have this BCM. It has no security system and it does have electric locks. Is there anything else I can try? Do I need to replace the board or is it fine to replace the entire cluster? What do I need to look for in a cluster if the cluster can be replace? I am very frustrated and any help would be appreciated.

[StandOnCliff]

Wanted to let everyone know that the soldering fix has solved the problem in our 97 Caravan. I used a magnifying glass also and couldn't see anything. I decided to resolder all of the connections at the plug anyway. They must have been cracked because I haven't had the problem since.Had it not been for this forum I would have replaced the BCM and never would have thought about this type of fix before just replacing the cluster. If banging on the dash makes them work the problem is there, you just might not see it. I believe one person said he needed 3 magnifying glasses to see his cracks. It can't hurt as long as it's out to resolder them no matter what.

[webbee]

...After pulling out the cluster, I checked the BCM but did not find any cracks onred plug and looked for movement on the back side with the solder joints but had no luck seeing anything loose. I can drive the van just fine with the cluster out and the red connector just hanging there...the turn signals work, locks work, power windows work, horn works, radio works. the solder joints. I checked them with a magnifying glass and all looks good. I wiggled each pin on the The board has a stamped part number of 04812451 and I have called several junk yards for this BCM and nobody seems to have this BCM. It has no security system and it does have electric locks. Is there anything else I can try? Do I need to replace the board or is it fine to replace the entire cluster? What do I need to look for in a cluster if the cluster can be replace? I am very frustrated and any help would be appreciated.
The BCM is a different item than the cluster board. I think I would re-solder the existing board and re-install to see if it will work. Don't depend on a visual inspection. There are also issues with leaking/swelling capacitors on these boards and they can be a contributing factor also. If after a solder fix the gauges don't work, then I would replace the whole cluster from the wreaking yard, doing the solder fix on the used board just to make sure.
I don't think you have a BCM problem, but you won't know for sure until you replace/fix the cluster and eliminate it as the source of the problem.

[welddoc]

Sounds as I stumbled onto something. My 97 caravan once in a while won't start and gauge cluster goes dead. It will start for 2-3 seconds then die. Will be like this for couple hours to a couple of days then start and run fine. I am going to try this this week. going to florida nest month and don't want to have this problem there.
Thanks for all the info sofar

[motorbiketim]

Wow! I have been living with this for a couple of years and last week the instrument panel went dead and stayed dead. This morning I found this forum via google and tonight I re-soldered my 98 Caravan's instrument PCB. Thanks to everyone that posted and the pictures were a huge help!

[XDGT03]

The internet is an amazing thing! Remember the old days when you had to call people in other time zones to pick their brains?

[Iwa2002]

I notice that when I turn off my friends van, the rpm and temp gauge needles would fall rapid just before hitting the stop pin. Is this normal? He did have the dead gauge problem twice.

[UberNoob]

I've been struggling with my gauges dying ever since purchasing my 98 Grand Caravan. Up until last week, 'tapping' the dashboard has always worked (and by tapping, I mean beating the snot out of it as I got more and more frustrated). Last week, the gauges died, and wouldn't come back. On another forum, I'd learned about how to push and hold two the HVAC buttons to go into a programming mode, but there was no information about what the blinking lights meant, or how to get out of it. Panicked that I had messed something up badly, I started searching around like crazy. That was when (through Google), I found Don Angell's post with good details about how that all worked. Then I read, and found out about the soldering trick. Did it, and now the problem is just gone. I can finally put my dashboard back together! Thanks so much for all the help, folks! Not only was I able to turn off the HVAC diagnostic test, but I was also able to test, and verify the functionality of, my BCM, and then look at pictures with the exact solder points to look for (had the same circular crack in it). A few minutes later, and a couple retouched solder points, and I've got one less problem in a van that I love.

Thanks again!

[defoucault]

Hi everyone new to this forum, have read the posts and wander if this will apply to 1994 grand caravan with 4 speed auto? No gauge problem.