Trans Band Adjustment Help, please.....

[RamVanMan]

Hello all:

I was wondering if any of you had adjusted the bands on your transmission, maybe while doing a trans fluid change, which I am now doing (and installing a new deep cooling pan).

I believe my '96 B-2500 has the 46 RE trans, but I'm having a hard time locating the front band adjustment screw which is said to be located on the outside left (DS) near the gear changing mechanism.

I did locate some instructions that seem to apply, but I still can't find that outside / front band screw - the 'inside the pan' rear band is easily visible'

So I guess I have 3 basic questions,

1) Anyone done a band adjustement ?

2) Should a '96 B-2500 have the 46 RE trans ?

3) If I have the trans # correct, do these instructions apply, and if that is so, why can't the outside / front band screw be located ?

I bet Nate can comment on this one. Here's the instructions from the DodgeRam.org site that seem to cover it:

http://www.dodgeram.org/tech/transmission/automatic/AT_band_adj.htm

Thanks so much for any help you can provide, David B.

BTW, to do this you need two special tools: Inch pound torque wrentch and a small square socket 1/4 or 5/16 - going to the NAPA hoping to get them !

[gsmagnum]

The one on the outside should require a star type socket. It is on the drivers side above the pan rail and pretty easy to see.
The one that requires the square socket is inside the pan.

[RamVanMan]

OK Grant, thanks !

That helps out - I've got the inch pound torque wrench on order, the 1/4 " square socket, and I think I have a set of Torx - Star sockets.

Somebody said a crows foot wrench was necessary to torque the front band (outside of the trans on DS) locknut properly - agree ?

When you adjusted your bands, what was the effect on your transmission performance ?

Thanks, David B.

[gsmagnum]

I saw no effect on trans performance. My tranny only has 27,000 mi on it and is pretty tight still.
You will need the crow's foot to torque the lock nut, but on mine, I used a wrench with a calibrated arm as far as the locking nut was concerned.
Make sure you have the right fluid on hand.
Mine took 7 quarts of ATF IV. I paid $7/qt from the dealer and bought a case of it.
I noticed the day after I purchased the Mopar stuff that is now made by Valvoline and sold at my local parts store for about $4/qt.:grum:
The pan gasket may be reusable on yours too like it was on mine. Save your receipt for it.

[Dodgevanman]

Yep...follow those instructions to the "T".

ATF+3 is available aftermarket and supposedly now ATF+4 is too, but I haven't seen it yet.

Your trans. is the 46RE and you may want to use the ATF+4. Go with what the owners manual recommends.

[DANVAN]

How impoertant is this band adjustment. Ive got 107k on mine with regular fluid changes, I use ATF4. I was just at the dealer today to get fluid, filter and pan gasket, I gave them my vin so I finnaly know I have a DGR-4Spd Auto 46RH tranmission in mine. U guys seem to have 46RE, and you newer, mines a 93.

I checked the above link and he only mentions 94 and up.

I just went outside to read the under hood sticker and it say sits an A518 trans. Now I wonder what I have again.

Also acording to the STAR printout from the dealer, it said I dont have a limited slip rear and dont need the additive, its the second time Ive been told that by some one, but when Ive changed the oil on 2 different occasions, I got a noise from the rear end untill I added the additive. I can remember seeing limited slip on the window sticker when I bought the van.

Do u guys use the additive in your differentials? What kind of oil do u use. I bought valvoline synthetic today because thats all I could find, in the past Ive always used Moble1 synthetic, Im not sure if Im happy with my purchase and may look some more for moble1

[DANVAN]

My owners manual says I have a 46RH.

Back to rear ends for a moment. What weight oil do u guys use, the manual doesnt even mention it. Ive seen 75-90 and 80-90,and maybe even 80-95, and then there like 80-145, which I think must be new, I went with the 75-90 because it was synthetic.

I had gears and bearings done back there 17k miles ago, then about 600 miles later changed the oil to synthetic, is it too soon to do it again since its synthetic, or should I do it since I tow. Am I wasting time and money?

Ive seen ATF4 by valvoline, but Ive always bought the dealers oil. I put the valvoline in the wife caravan.

[Dodgevanman]

Dan...the A518 is the 46RH (that's Mopar's new terminology). The "H" meaning hydraulic. On '96-up 46RE, the "E" means electronic.

The band adjustment procedures have been the same for 40 years. My A100 manuals show the same exact procedure.

[gsmagnum]

I put the additive in mine when I changed the fluid in the rear.
It is running Mopar Synthetic lube. I can't remember the weight though. It was on the lubricant list for it at the parts counter.

For engine oil, I like to use either Amsoil or Valvoline Synthetic in my van and Valvoline dino oil in my Concorde.
I hate Mobil 1 because I have seen no benefits when using it. It burned off as fast as dino oil and sooted up like dino oil.
Valvoline and Amsoil both stay clear longer and don't burn off as soon.

[DANVAN]

I work at a ford dealer, and asked a few guys, they all agree that as long as its full synthetic there should be no problem with switching brands, so the valvoline goes in tonight. I decidede to do it here at work, it will be a whole lot easier doing it in the air then on my back at home.

The guy at the parts counter said the same thing as u Grant, he used to use moble and switched his vehicles to amsoil and valvoline.

I read thru the directions on adjusting the bands and decided that my trans shifts fine so Im not touching them. I dont have the special tools needed anyway.

Have a good day, thanks for the replies

[RamVanMan]

Hey guys:

Thanks for the input. I'm going to do that band adjustment very soon. I'm gathering the tools now.

Nate, that's funny the same adjustment procedure for 40 years - then again when something works - don't change it.

The 46 RE is finally performing better. I was having terrible time with funny shifts, erratic operation, constant downshifting & upshifting (hunting bet 3 rd & OD) & wouldn't stay locked in OD.

Gradually, it's improved. Here's what has been done, each things seems to have helped - not sure which step deserves more or less credit.

First off, gratis to the trans tech who said (can't remember where on Dodgetalk.com !) our transmissions suffer from getting clogged up with organic, fibrous material worn off the clutch faces. He stated that little chunks that can go through the stock trans filter can build up and clog the 'solenoid packs' and other passageways. He said stock filtering was inadequate and an external filter a MUST.

I think this fellow was speaking the truth, especially after the following was done:

I installed the Perma Cool external transmission filter ($ 30 from Summitracing.com - uses regular oil filter) and noticed instant improvement.

First, when I dropped the pan to change the internal filter, I noted quite a few chunks of material that looked as he predicted - like little orgainic fibers. We re-used the expensive Red Line Syn ATF and filtered it throught a screened funnel. After a few quarts, the fine screen was so clogged with this debris, it stopped the flow completely. I scraped it out and it was about a small thimblefull of debris - nice.

Just think what this was doing inside the Trans !

Anyhow, besides adding the external filter, we even upgraded the Trans Pan to a Derale Cooling Pan ($ 80 from SummitRacing.com) - which holds 3 quarts more than stock, plus has cooling tubes built in to cool the ATF as you drive. Plus it has a drain plug so no mess to change fluid !

I had already added an external Hayden "Plate style" cooler, so with the extra ATF capacity and cooling provided by these add-ons, the trans now enjoys better working conditions than when it was new !

The trans is working better than ever, I have yet to do that band adjustment but next week at that time, we'll drain off the 6 to 9 quarts of 'old' ATF and use the new Valvoline ATF +4, which states it's "fully synthetic" and "prevents shudder".

Hopefully any crud too large to be removed by the new external filter, can be flushed out with this fluid change and the band adjustment may improve shift performance.

This is sure a lot to do on the 'Family Bus', but when I consider the alternative - the trans shop horror stories others tell - any thing is better than an un-necessary
$ 2000 appointment at the trans shop ! FWIW

Thanks for all your help guys, .....David B. :)

[gsmagnum]

I like the idea of the external filter.
How often do they recommend changing it?
The cooled, larger capacity pan with the drain plug is a good idea too.

I really like the plate style tranny cooler that is on my Concorde. That one is a B&M. I should probably switch it over to ATF 4 too. I only have to buy maybe 3 or 4 more quarts to have enough to do it.

I am glad that there is someone else out there who noticed the difference between Mobil 1 and Valvoline/Amsoil.
I actually tried Mobil 1 twice with the same results compared to Amsoil or Valvoline in two different engines. One engine was a Chevy Vortech 305 :VHOT: and the other was a 2.2 Mopar.

[RamVanMan]

Perma Cool says change it every 50,000 miles - seems a bit long to me, so maybe I do it a little sooner ? It's just a normal Fram # PH 8A (or equivalent). The kit has the element with it. Summit has the Perma Cool unit, also one identical under their private label.

One thing: it might be nice to do the 'deluxe' Perma Cool filter cause it includes a Trans temp guage, if that matters to you. I did the basic filter set up - about $ 30 -cheap insurance.

I plumbed it in like this :

FROM Transmission
TO Radiator Cooler
TO External Filter
TO External Cooler
RETURN Transmission

One reason is cause after studying the room available it seemed the most logical, safest mounting position to be far forward in the drivers side wheel well, several inches infront of the tire swing area. There is a gusseted extra thick sheetmetal area that is blank above it, no problem drilling holes. BTW IMPORTANT NOTE: if you choose this or similar area, you should consider STRONGLY using Nylock nuts or nuts with lockwashers, not just the sheetmetal screws** that come with the kit.

This is because the filter head will mount upside down, element horizontal - sheet metal screws may rip out from the road vibration induced gravity.

[If one or more of you intend to do this, tell me and I'll dig out my digital camera and snap a picture if you wish.]

So Grant, does your last comment mean you didn't like Mobil 1 over Valvoline or Amsoil ?

thanks, David

** I learned a new thing from my dad in law - you might find this interesting. He said that all holes you make for sheetmetal screws should be PUNCHED, not drilled. HUH ? I said - he explained that with a punched hole, the inner edge becomes the holding force - way stronger than predrilling a hole ! Did anyone else know that or am I just late to the party ?

[gsmagnum]

So Grant, does your last comment mean you didn't like Mobil 1 over Valvoline or Amsoil ?


That would be correct.
I never did a teardown after running the stuff, so I couldn't tell what it left for sludge, etc.
:hijacked:

:D

[stev]

** I learned a new thing from my dad in law - you might find this interesting. He said that all holes you make for sheetmetal screws should be PUNCHED, not drilled. HUH ? I said - he explained that with a punched hole, the inner edge becomes the holding force - way stronger than predrilling a hole ! Did anyone else know that or am I just late to the party ?

David,

I'm a design engineer for Delphi. Yep, the automotive supplier in the big trouble seat lately. :( We do punching for our sheet metal too. Although it's nearly rare these days with the other fasteners available.

As for the sheet metal screws, punch is ideal. Not only do you get the inner edge holding force, more threads engage the punched metal point in the direction it was punched. :) However, that's not ideal since RUST and corrosion can be a big issue. You did the job properly with the lock nuts. :)

*** Take a picture of the job done, resize it to 640x480, and save it to a file size of under 50k. Then host the file at a image bucket and display it in the thread here. (did that make your head spin or what?)

Stev

[RamVanMan]

OK guys,

I'm gonna change out the ATF this week, do the band adjust, etc. I'll use the ATF + 4 - Valvoline Synthetic - Grant, Dan and others here who recommended it are probably right it's does seem the best choice.

Can anyone confirm that if you drop the trans cooler line, and have an assistant put the trans in 'Drive' (while emergency brake firmly on), it should pump out even more ATF than just dropping the pan ? I wonder how many quarts total can be changed using this method....

Stev, you said:

*** Take a picture of the job done, resize it to 640x480, and save it to a file size of under 50k. Then host the file at a image bucket and display it in the thread here. (did that make your head spin or what?)

I can do this, but what do you mean by 'host the file at an image bucket...' ?

External link ? or is it fairly simple to incorporate the picture here within my forum post - I've not done it before !

Thanks !

[Dodgevanman]

Don't put it in drive...neutral should be just fine. However I wouldn't run the trans. completely dry with the pump running.

[DANVAN]

What Nate said.

[RamVanMan]

Thanks for the advice - it might harm things to pump out too much fluid - makes good sense. How much is too much ? :huh:

I recall you get about 5 or 6 quarts out of the trans by just dropping the pan, sound right ?

If memory serves, capacity is something like 14 quarts - so maybe I 'squirt out' more than the pan capacity, something less than total - then drop the pan and see if I get more ?

My goal is simply the most ATF out, so I can put the most Valvoline + 4 back in. :help:

Thanks for any advice, guys.

David-Ram Van [& truck !] Man

PS: I did have a friend with a shop who helped me, when I first got the van, to flush it with his 'dialysis' machine - he's kinda far away & it cost I think $ 48 for the labor when I supplied the fluid. It was said to remove and replace 99 % of the fluid old for new - no way to do that at home, too bad ....

[DANVAN]

I just did mine last week, took 6 qts with filter replacement. 12 or 14 total sounds correct. I guess it couldnt hurt to squirt a few qts out like u said before u drop the pan. Or u could go to a shop with a flush machine and get a complete flush done.

[Dodgevanman]

Yeah..I would pump out an extra 3 or 4 quarts, but I don't think I'd push it much past that. Since the trans. was flushed with fresh fluid before, I don't think you have to worry about a bit of old fluid in there.

[RamVanMan]

Hi guys:

David B here: I finally snapped pics of the Perma Cool external trans filter that I mounted. For max exposure, I'll start a new thread titled like that - so if you want to the pics please go to the thread index page.

Thanks, David B.