ATF+4 n ATF+3

[wtoti]

My 2000 Caravan is going for its first transmission oil change. Owner Manual says to the used ATF4 yet I cant seem to find that in this part of the world except ATF3. Will ATF3 be ok. Do I need to get all the old trans oil out since most of it is in the converter, will mixing ATF4 and AFT3 be ok?
:help:

[lebaronman]

It will mix ok but I would go to the dealer and get ATF 4.

[vipergg]

I assume you are outside of the US . ATF 4 is in the parts stores now here in the states , with Valvoline seeming to be the first one out with it . Autozone and Advanced Auto have it in my neck of the woods . If you are outside the US then the dealer may be the only source still , this is still new in the parts stores here in the US.

[shelbydodgeimp]

I have read on allpar that ATF3 and ATF do not mix well, but you can top one off with the other when needed.

You should be able to get it anywhere in the world that has a Dodge/Chrysler dealership, maybe even mercedes now that they own chrysler (but not sure on that one).

Last I heard ATF4 was still not being made by generics, valvoline in fact only has an ATF3, NOT an ATF4, see their site below
http://www.valvoline.com/pages/products/category.asp?cid=3

Advanced Auto lists their ATF3 as a ATF3/ATF4 but that is inacurate, it is only an ATF3.

I would go to the dealer and get the correct fluid, no sense cutting corners on a trans with a reputation for being picky & weak when dealing with such things, and I would imagine places where ATF4 is hard to get would also be hard to get A604 parts...

[gsnod]

If I can weigh in to this discussion with a question....two years ago @ 54K, I took my 1999 GC into the 5 Star dealer for it's first transmission flush -- my invoice read that they used a Daytona Trans Flush 98/00 system. Following the owners manual, which stipulates ATF+3, that's what I asked for them to use...

Now I'm getting ready take it in again for a flush (currently has 78K), and I'm wondering whether I should ask for ATF +3 or +4? Am I better off following what the manual says, or will +4 be OK?

Any suggestions?

[shelbydodgeimp]

You can use ATF4.

The dealer most likely will not even have ATF3 since Chrysler does not make it anymore.

Only thing to keep in mind, ATF4 is a full synethetic so if you have an existing seal leak (say pan gasket) it will get worse with ATF4.

But there is no reason you cant use ATF4 in an older A604.

[gsnod]

Thanks Shelbydodge for the ATF +4 confirmation--

Any opinion on getting a flush -- verses just a pan drop and filter change? Last time, they did not drop the pan and change the filter....

[braveheart]

when is the best time to get a transmission flush? how many kilomiters?

[auto_mran]

Please check out TSB 21-006-04!!!
From the TSB:
NOTE: ATF+4 must always be used on vehicles that were originally filled with ATF+4.
NOTE: ATF+4 is compatible with ATF+3 and +2. ATF+4 can be used to top off vehicles that currently have +2 or +3. DO NOT USE +2 or +3 to top off vehicles that have ATF+4.
Also, if I have interpreted the TSB correctly, ATF+4 should NOT be used on all minivans that are 1999 and older.

[auto_mran]

CORRECTION!!!! That should be TSB 21-004-04.
Typo's can be killers.
Sorry

[shelbydodgeimp]

You should always drop the pan at the bare min- the main objective is to get the debris, sludge whatever out of the bottom of the pan, see what kind of debris (if any) is there (i.e. metal chunks) and then to put in clean fluid et al.

As to when- every 1-3 years depending how much you drive.


NOTE: ATF+4 must always be used on vehicles that were originally filled with ATF+4.
NOTE: ATF+4 is compatible with ATF+3 and +2. ATF+4 can be used to top off vehicles that currently have +2 or +3. DO NOT USE +2 or +3 to top off vehicles that have ATF+4.
Also, if I have interpreted the TSB correctly, ATF+4 should NOT be used on all minivans that are 1999 and older.

I put the important part in bold. You inepreted it incorrectly- it is backwords compatiable with ATF3 and ATF2 so you can use it in trans that originally used ATF3 or ATF2.

You can not, however, top off your fluid level with ATF3 or ATF2 if using ATF4.

No where does it say not to use it in pre99 models.

Additionally there is a different TSB which states using it in an older trans with a leak could lead to a gasket or seal failure- again its like engine oil, if you already have a leak, it will get worse if you switch to a full synethetic.

[vipergg]

It may not be on Valvoline's website but they do indeed make atf +4 and it can be had at any Advanced auto or Autozone for $3.69 a quart , it is afull synthetic...

[shelbydodgeimp]

My guess is that if they have it, it is pretty darn new since both their website and advanced auto list valvoline's 7176/Chrysler ATF fluid as a ATF3, not an ATF4.

I am *not* saying that you are wrong, I am just saying it is probably fairly new if I were to guess.

[gsnod]

Thanks for the great information; I sent a note to the dealer today to make an appointment for a transmissionfilter and fluid change. I also asked whether they will use ATF +3 or +4, and for the approximate cost for the service.

No response to the fluid type, but cost estimate is 195.00...I'm temped to change the filter myself and do some fluid changes via the suction system....or hose down the dipstick hole...

What do ya think?

[webbee]

I think the $tealer$hip only has ATF+4 at this point, so that should be what you get from them. There is a procedure for the DIYer to pump the old fluid out of the converter by using the tranny cooler line, after replacing the fluid/filter in the pan. I have yet to do the procedure so can't comment. Going down the dipstick hole will only remove the fluid in the pan. I also would put a drain in the pan while you have it off, making future changes much less messy.

[rtelles]

Hi Webbee or Shelby..

Does anyone of you have the Allpar instructions/diagrams to replace old fluid out of the Pan and Torque Converter and put in new fluid? I am not a DIY but I would like to see how it is done and how hard it is...

Thanks..

[vipergg]

It is new , probably been out about 3 months or so here in the states . Autozone has it for $3.69 a quart here in upstate NY . It says it full synthetic right on the bottle. Just wander down to your local Autozone if you have one and you will find it on the shelves..

[gsnod]

I was at Advance Auto this weekend and saw Valvoline ATF +4 for about 4.65 per quart here in Central Mass.

[shelbydodgeimp]

All I can say is THANK GOD.

Its about time Chrysler learned that if the *correct* fluid was cheap and easy to get (aka you dont HAVE to go to the dealer to obtain it) more people will use it and not dexron!!! My biggest rant with the A604 for years has been- people do not always know what fluid to use, and thus will help kill a dying a604 and never know what finally pushed it over the edge. Didn't help that some minivan years have dipsticks that say to use Dexron and the 1990 FSM says ATF3 is optional (yea, like that is acurate :bashhead: ).

I would do the fluid every 1-3 years depending how much you drive.

When you do it what I and alot of people will do is take off the bolts on two sides of the pan, and use a screwdriver to brake the seal and let it drain threw the crack you just made.

Make sure you have a fairly large container to collect it or you could be taking a free ATF bath.

Once that is done, take the pan out- check for debris (metal chunks, anything abnormal or large is not good). Clean the pan's debris magnet off, take off the filter, put on a new filter- then gasket/seal up the pan and bolt it back on.

I don't even use a gasket, i just use that silver/grey RTV sealant/gasket that the Dealer has (sure there are generic versions of that).

For flushing allpar does have instructions here:
http://www.allpar.com/eek/atf.html

Do not worry about "band adjustment"- that is a 3speed thing, A604 has no bands.

[turbinemech]

I just checked the TSB on www.dodgeinfo.com and I have copied the portion that says not to use ATF4 in pre-99 mini-vans. TSB 21-004-04

"NOTE: This bulletin applies to all transmissions manufactured by Chrysler except for 1999 and earlier minivans with the 41TE/AE transmission, This Service Bulletin DOES NOT apply to all AW-4 transmissions, Sprinter transmissions, Crossfire transmissions and WG bodies equipped with a W5J400 or NAG1 transmission (sales code DGJ).

[webbee]

This same discussion topic is also being hashed on the Allpar forums. (http://www.allpar.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=77792) Page two has the debate about pre-2000 D/C mini use of ATF+4. I don't discount the "un-named D/C engineer" observation about ATF+4 testing and incompatibly with pre-2K seals and I believe TSB 21-004-04 (http://dodgeram.info/tsb/2004/21-004-04.htm) when it says ATF+4 should not be used in pre-2K D/C minis. I also believe that if you can use ATF+4...you should, as it is a superior formulation.

Because wtoti's van is a 2000 and it is specified for ATF+4 use, that is what should be put in the van. Don't let them put ATF+3 in it!

[2000TC]

Chrysler has stopped making ATF+3. ATF+4 is recommended for all years.

[webbee]

TSB 21-004-04 has been superseded by TSB 21-010-06 (http://www.wkjeeps.com/misc/LX/TSB/TSB_2101006.pdf) which corrects a note typo about ATF+4 not being used in pre2000 DC minivans. ATF+4 is to be used in place of ATF+3 in most applications. Sorry for any confusion concerning my previous post, I hadn't discovered TSB 21-010-06 when I posted it.