Transmission fluid replacement (Pan Gasket vs Sealant)

[rtelles]

I need to take my Dodge Caravan 2004 for a transmission fluid and filter replacement today as I detected a leak of transmission fluid last week and yesterday that I took the minivan for oil change the mechanic also mentioned it. The dealer charges $185 for the work (flush, filter and gasket replacement) so I decided to call the "so-called" transmission experts shops for a quote. Mister Transmission charges $120.00 and AAMCO charges $109.00 for flush, filter replacement and silicone sealant (instead of gasket).

The mechanics at Mister Transmission and AAMCO told me that they do not use pan gaskets on Chrysler vehicle because after a while the tranny fluid will start leaking again, that using a sealant it would not leak at all. Now my question is : using a pan gasket is better than using sealant (considering that the dealer uses a pan gasket)? or the use of a pan gasket ($5.57) is less messy and easier to do than the sealant but the sealant is actually a better way to do it?

Thanks for your anwers guys...

Rafael

[shelbydodgeimp]

I cant speak to the latest models but my 1990 and 1992 do not use a pan gasket for the trans. I went to the dealer to get some and was surprised when they said they do not use pan gaskets but rather that grey RTV liquid gasket epoxy that comes in a tooth paste tube.

Hasnt given me any problems.

I suspect part of what is going on, is that ATF4 is fully synethetic and as such, will leak if the traditional gasket material is weak/decayed/etc. Same thing happens with engines, a high mileage engine that has never seen synethetic might start leaking if given it... of course in the case of engines some synethetic formulas are better than others in terms of leaking, with the A604 we do not have the luxury of "chosing a fluid"- there is only one (two if you have one old enough to use ATF3).

BTW I would stay clear from AAMCO when dealing with flushes and the like, I have seen so many horror stories about them on this board & allpar that I would use that as a last resort.

You could consider doing the work yourself, it is not that involved of a job. You should need abt 5 quarts to drop the pan, ~11 to do a complete flush. Sadly the A604 does not use a drain plug so if you chose to try it yourself, be sure you have a big enough container so it doesnt all go on you and/or your garage floor ;)

[dodges 3]

I just did mine and used RTV sealant, but to hold the gasket in place. I smeared some around the entire lip, then placed gasket, and lined up holes. When I snugged down the pan bolts a little sealant oozed out, which will probably help in the long run....Brad

[rtelles]

Thanks for the input guys... I actually took the minivan yesterday to AAMCO (I am so sorry I did not read shelbydodgeimp message before) for tranny fluid replacement... I have not had a single problem with the transmission before and the only reason I wanted the transmission fluid replaced is so the gasket (or pan seal) was replaced to stop a mini leak I had.. Well the mechanic at AAMCO said apart from the gasket leak the Solenoid Pack was also leaking and needed to be replaced... I said NO to that work (which was $300) but he said that if I do not replace the solenoid soon I will start having problems with the transmission...

Now I am no expert but common sense tells me that if the solenoid is indeed leaking, could it not be only a seal that's damaged? Do I really need to replace the solenoid if its leaking? What would be the first signs that the solenoid is damaged, wouldn't I get an Error Code?

Thanks guys for your input on this....

[pefer]

Rafael:You state it is a 2004. What... Warranty is up?

Leaky gaskets, seals etc are warranty items, might need to pay for fluids - maybe not if you are stern about it at the dealer, would all be done no cost.

Did Ammco use ATF4?

lastly, if you ask on a forum like this, wait a few days for other people's suggestions before deciding what you'll do. Your vehicle would not break down at all for a few more days wait.

[shelbydodgeimp]

THEY DID NOT USE ATF4.

In fact i would bet significant money on it, unless you brought them the fluid (and even then it is unlikely), as ATF4 is ***only*** made by Chrysler!!!

ATF3 is the only fluid on the market from nonMopar sources for this trans, now that Chrysler has licensed the formula.

Get your trans fluid flushed ASAP or it will start to kill your trans.

As to the solenoid, I know some years have been known to have a problem with it warping and leaking some fluid, but I do not know if 2004 is one of them. IF it is, I would not worry about it until it is bad enough to require replacement, but either way I would try to see if Chrysler would do it as a warrenty item.

Get your trans into the dealership for a fluid flush immediately, ATF3 (let alone dexron) in a 2004 is a no-no :(

[rtelles]

Thanks for the insight Shelby about the ATF fluid.. IN fact they used ATF3.. I did not know at the time that ATF4 was a requirement and the guys at AAMCO said ATF3 works just fine.. I guess I just lost $125 on that transmission fluid change :O( ... I will take the van back to the dealer next week to make the fluid change (it costs $190 there) but I guess that the fluid change is needed anyways when doing the solenoid pack replacement? Right?

[shelbydodgeimp]

Yea, most likely you'd have to drain at least some of the fluid to do the solenoid pack.

At least they didn't put dexron in :banghead:

I wonder if it says use ATF4 on the dipstick for the trans or the manual... I know back in the mid 90s some minivans incorrectly said to use dexron on the dipstick, seem to recall it was a recall or TSB.

Basically the fluid change was for the good, ATF4 is a better designer fluid, less wear and tare, smoother shifts, fully synethetic etc. My stance is always to use the best you can since we know this trans is very weak & picky and when compared to the cost of a transmission, you might as well use the best you can when you can, as a fail safe.

BTW ask when its in the shop if:
A ) it has differential pin stoppers
B ) if not, how much it would cost to do if they are already going in there.

My A604 in the Dynasty died at 150k when it shot the differential pin clear threw the case, leaving a nice lil hole. I have heard some newer ones have the pin stoppers OEM but do not know when they started that. My 1990 5th Ave's trans is all original at 180k (not bad considering its a 2nd year A604 :O ).

[rtelles]

I already called the dealer and will bring the minivan Monday morning for the solenoid pack... Thanks Shelby for the insight, and believe me from now on I will take my time before making fast decisions before fully investigating the facts.. This forum is such a great source of information... My minivan still has 1 year warranty (until March 2007) so I hope they change the solenoid pack at no cost; but now I am a bit worried they might argue that because AAMCO used ATF3 they are not responsible for parts damaged, event though its only being 2 days and the solenoid leak was before the fluid change.. In the last 4 weeks the minivan has given me many headaches, don't get me wrong I love imy van but it's being draining my wallet a lot lately :mad: ...

Two last questions in this matter:

1) Is it possible to inspect if the solenoid valve is leaking without opening anything? Do some of you guys, have a drawing showing the location of the solenoid valve so I check it out myself?

2) It's cheaper (about half price) to get a transmission fluid flush ONLY instead of doing the full service (includes replacing the filter and changing the gasket). Considering the filter and Pan seal was replaced at AAMCO, won't a Flush of the ATF+3 for brand new ATF+4 do the trick? Or does the replacement of the Solenoid Pack requires the Pan to be opened again so the whole service has to be paid again?

Once again thanks for your help!

Rafael

[pefer]

Flush it, change filter, get the last drop of ATF3 outta there!

You have warranty till 2007.... what's the current mileage?
How is it draining you wallet?

[rtelles]

I will take the minivan for a full fluid flush and replace the ATF3 for the correct ATF4, however since the filter is band new, do I still need to change it? I am asking this because a transmission fluid flush is $30 cheaper than doing the whole thing again... If I need to replace the filter again believe me $30 won't hurt me , but if I do not need to then why the extra expense...

The minivan has given many headaches in the last 5 months. I spent in new rotors and brake pads, fuel injectors cleaning, body throttle cleaning, sway bar bushings replacement, EGR valve replacement and now the transmission too !! For a 2 year old car it is a lot of expense, and the dealer only covered the EGR valve and sway bar bushing parts under warranty, everything else plus labour I had to pay it...

Unfortunately I am on a lease for 24 more months, but this is the last Dodge I ever buy. I was a happy Honda and Toyota owner for over 15 years before this minivan...

PS: It does say in the dipstick to use ATF+4 only, damn AAMCO guys they told me ATF+3 was the equivalent...

[shelbydodgeimp]

PS: It does say in the dipstick to use ATF+4 only, damn AAMCO guys they told me ATF+3 was the equivalent...

Why am I not surprised? I wonder how AAMCO stays in business...

I spent in new rotors and brake pads, fuel injectors cleaning, body throttle cleaning, sway bar bushings replacement, EGR valve replacement and now the transmission too !!

Rotars & pads at 50k is no biggie- thats a general maintnance item
Fuel injector cleaning- not sure why you had that done, but that is a general maintnance item also
TB cleaner- should be done once a year (gen maintnance item)- you can do that one yourself, its real easy.

The bushings, EGR valve I see as the only things on your list that isnt normal maintnance.

"now the transmission now too!!!" ???? What are you talking about, you only had the fluid & filter replaced (should be done every 1-3 years depending how much you drive). The trans works fine, correct? It has not been replaced, correct? You took it to AAMCO and they did a half arse job w/ the wrong fluid- correct? Sounds like your trans has been fairly problem free.

No matter what you buy, you have to do general maintnance items like that (or at least, you should be).

[rtelles]

Thanks shelbydodgeimp for your comments, I truly appreciate them...

So I have the minivan at the dealership for the replacement of the Solenoid Valve and apparently the technician said that there is definetly a leak but cannot determine where (so he did not replaced anything), so they just put a dye and I have to take it back next week to determine the cause of the leak...

I know I have to do replace the fluid for ATF+4 but I did not want to mention that at the dealership because next thing you know, they will be saying the warranty is voided and I have to pay for repairs now (even though I still under warranty)...

So the question now is what should I do:

1) Wait until next week and when the van is at the dealership, ask them to do a transmission pan fluid & filter replacement ($190); if I choose the entire flushing (Torque Converter) as well then it's an extra $40. BTW I do not know how bad is to have the ATF3 for another week...

2) Go back to AAMCO with the proper fluid (ATF+4 bought at the dealership for $7 a liter) and ask them to replace it free of charge. But after this first sour experience I am a bit frighten to take the car back there...

3) Same as option 2 but take the car a a different shop where they have a Transmission Fluid Flush machine do replace the fluid with appropriate ATF+4.

I will appreciate your input on this issue...

[shelbydodgeimp]

I would have the dealer do it unless you can find a shop that is independant and highly expierenced with the A604. Quiz them if you wish before you drive out there on the phone (i.e. "what fluid do you use? How do you flush it?" etc).

I would not go back to AAMCO unless you have to. The big concern is that most shops that have a flush machine, have it preloaded with a fluid like Dexron and some, even if they say they can- just can not use your own fluid with their flush machine. Especially true for large machines with several gallons of fluid in them- I find it unlikely they can- let alone will, drain the machine, fill it up with ATF4 only and then do the job.

I would not worry about a mere week, if thats what it takes to have it done properly. I would do it as soon as you can however.

I would drain every ounce from the trans and refill it with ATF4, as a strong procaution- that would be an ideal fix. At least it was ATF3 that was used, and not Dexron- so there is hope if you dont get 100% of it flushed out.

I think part of the problem with these transmissions (not just Chrylser- many companies have their own special designer fluids now) is that there is no longer a generic fluid (i.e. dexron) that can be thrown in every automatic that enters the shop. Likewise, many people are not anal enough to follow all the TSBs, etc to realize just what fluids can be used on which transmissions. That confusion, even if the tech does not realize he is not completely sure- can lead to improper work. Poor training merely amplifies this (such as the techs you'd find at an AAMCO).

For instance, for years now- all the boards related to this (Prowlers, Intrepids, Allpar, this one and all other minivan boards) have been saying for years that Dexron + an additive is not quite ATF3, let alone ATF4. This is without debate.

Some shops, even ones known to have a good reputation with this trans (i.e. Power Demon) have started to use Dexron + an additive in their work.

I just recently got in a heated debate with a rebuilder on Allpar about this.

If you are paying to have a trans built, custom or OEM spec it doesnt matter, you are spending anywhere from $1200 to 3600 USD. Thats a great deal of money, excluding newer models that MUST use ATF4, you can and should use ATF3.

Unlike a few years ago, ATF3 is now made by generic companies. Why not spend the extra $5 per trans to do the job the "right way" with peace of mind- and use the proper fluid, the ATF3 (even if it a generic produced version).

Studies from companies like Cheveron have found that the dexron + additives were only even close to ATF3 back in the early 90s. I can tell you right now they were not the same, and I can also tell you that ATF3 has had its formula changed almost once a year since 1989! Thus even if the dexron + additive was close to ATF3 in ~1990, it certainly does not make it close to the ATF3 Chrysler was making in 1996/1998. Those changes were made for a reason.

Additionally I think alot of people do not realize when a failure occurs from using the wrong fluid, this trans has a bad reputation- and alot of times it is merely dismissed as "just an other A604 dying", and additionally builders who rebuild A604s, generally do so when the trans is got about 100-200k miles on it already. Even if dexron limits the lifespan to around 90k-150k (as opposed to say, 150-250k)- you still have the trans going into a vehical that already has that many miles on it, and few people keep their vehicals to the 300k or higher mark (especially in rust prone areas like the north).

Thus even if using the wrong fluid causes long term reliability issues, a rebuilder might not know it!

Chrysler also has made a few years of minivans with the dipstick saying to use Dexron (can you say typeo?) my 1992 Dynasty and 1990 5th Ave both say to use 7176 (which is ATF3). But my 1990 FSM says ATF3 is optional- yikes, with so much misinformation coming from so many sources, including Chrysler- it is no surprise that some people do not know what to use!

[mmahamm]

...ATF4 is ***only*** made by Chrysler!!!...:(
Check your facts.

http://www.imakenews.com/lng/e_article000473450.cfm?x=b11,0,w

[shelbydodgeimp]

I stand corrected, ATF4 was not originally licensed out however and I have yet to come across a generic ATF4 in a parts retailer (like advanced auto).

Not saying they dont exist now but they might not be too common yet with valvoline, advanced auto, etc all not listing ATF4 on their websites.

[rtelles]

Thanks again for the long and detailed explanation Shelby... And sorry to ask again but I still have a couple of questions:

1) Do you believe replacing the filter is MANDATORY ?? (filter is only 1 week old)
2) Do I need to precise to the dealer to flush the Torque Converter as well (an extra $40) ??
3) Will the use of ATF+3 void the warranty of my transmission or not ??
4) While doing the transmission fluid flush they will notice there is ATF+3 in the car, or is it impossible to distinguish between ATF+3 and ATF+4 (same colour, odor, etc..)??? (They will notice for sure that the fluid is brand new, so they might question why am I doing requesting a fluid flush...)

Thanks

[Damn Dirty Ape]

I stand corrected, ATF4 was not originally licensed out however and I have yet to come across a generic ATF4 in a parts retailer (like advanced auto).

Not saying they dont exist now but they might not be too common yet with valvoline, advanced auto, etc all not listing ATF4 on their websites.


Advance, Oreilly, and Azone here (Southern Illinois) have had it for about 2 months almost.. AA=4.68, Oreilly = 3.69, Azone =3.69.. Valvoline fully licensed ATF+4 :rck:

[shelbydodgeimp]

I think airbags are good when used properly. If you arent buckled in or if you are too close to the steering wheel it will cause injury.

Lol ~2 months? No wonder I didn't know about it. I was starting to think I'm losing my touch ;)

1) Do you believe replacing the filter is MANDATORY ?? (filter is only 1 week old)

No, not with it being that new.


2) Do I need to precise to the dealer to flush the Torque Converter as well (an extra $40) ??

I would consider it, do not believe it holds alot of fluid but I would do it just to be on the same side. You want to make sure all ATF4 is in there.


3) Will the use of ATF+3 void the warranty of my transmission or not ??

Hmm, that is a tough one. I am not expirenced with debating Chrysler customer support on warrenty coverage. I think if it was documented that you used the wrong fluid and you had a trans part failure, it would not look too good (depending what it was that broke). Some things just are not fluid related (like a ejected differential pin or a speed sensor dying etc). But some can be (worn clutch material, damage to the pistons like the L/R piston from slapping back when the wrong fluid is used...).


4) While doing the transmission fluid flush they will notice there is ATF+3 in the car, or is it impossible to distinguish between ATF+3 and ATF+4 (same colour, odor, etc..)??? (They will notice for sure that the fluid is brand new, so they might question why am I doing requesting a fluid flush...)


hehe, thankfully all ATF is red and looks close enough to the same I wouldn't worry about it. Tho I do remeber once a niebor at a friend's house got some ATF from a dollar store and it had the color and consistancy of water :blink:

If they ask, just say it was due for it being done (true I would imagine) and that with a trans with a bad rep, you do not mind paying extra to be on the safe side in terms of maintaining it (which is true anyway, after all- you just had it changed for a reason and you are asking questions here which lead me to believe you do care...).

[rtelles]

Once again Shelby, thanks for your words of wisdom, I truly appreciate them... I was reading about the results on using ATF+3 instead of ATF+4 (on a ATF+4 designed vehicle) ona TSB and it mentioned that the transmission would work fine, but the ATF+3 would cause seal damage and also that ATF+3 only lasts 30,000 kms instead of 60,000 kms to 90,000 kms that ATF+4 delivers...

[rtelles]

A few minutes ago I got a call from the manager at the AAMCO station, apparently Head Office called him today informing him that a client was complaining about the wrong fluid being used for a transmission fluid replacement... Obviously that client was me (I sent an email to head office last Friday telling them the story and asking for a refund or fluid flush)...

Now this guy (which by the way was the same person that told me on Friday that they used ATF+3) is arguing that they used 100% sure ATF+4, because if the dipstick says ATF+4 then they will never use ATF+3. I told him that was not possible because I was told that ATF+4 is only available at the Dealership, which he replied that AAMCO has had ATF+4 for more than a year and than ATF+4 was even available at any Canadian Tire or even Walmart. I was so pissed off I hung up...

But I did call 2 Canadian Tire stores and they confirmed they sell Motomaster ATF+4 fluid. I called 3 other AAMCO shops in other cities and they also said they do have ATF+4 on stock. I did not check on Walmart but this whole situation got me thinking again...

What if they really used ATF+4 at AAMCO? Is there any possible way to tell? Or can this be done only by doing a fluid analysis at the lab? I would like to verify this , so I do not pay $200 for unnecessary work...

[shelbydodgeimp]

Well, someone already said that within the last ~2 months ATF4 has come out from nonMopar sources. However there is a big difference between "~2 months" and "over a year"

The first question is: Is the "have had ATF4 for more than a year at AAMCO" acurate?

2nd question is: Is this real ATF4 or some snake oil "dexron + additive" combination? Would they tell you if it was?

3rdly: They said they used ATF3. I dunno about you but I find it suspecious that they said this only before being put under pressure... when asked on the spot it was ATF3, when yelled at and given time to think of an answer- they said atf4.

There is no test I know of to determine what fluid is in there now, I would change it just to be on the safe side- what everyone on allpar has been saying for quite some time is, when in doubt- do not risk it.

[shelbydodgeimp]

i would also be curious to see:

ATF4 is been required in all A604/A606's since 1999. That being said....

EVEN If they had the fluid for a year, from 1999+ did they turn away customers with newer vans needing work (say all 1999-2005 models)? They say they did not have ATF4 then, so what did they use?

[2000TC]

I had a similar thing happen to me and I ended up paying for a 2nd fluid change at the dealer. Unfortunately it stinks having to pay twice but you may not have a choice. Even if you made them show you the ATF+4 bottle, you still couldn't be sure what they put in.

These trannys have made us all paranoid about fluid (rightfully so) and unless you do it yourself or at the dealer, you have to watch them put it in yourself. ;)

[shelbydodgeimp]

These trannys have made us all paranoid about fluid

Ahh, but is it still paranioa when you are right?

[gas28man]

There's a simple solution to all this doubt. Establish a relationship with a local mechanic that you trust. A guy who knows he has your business as a "regular" will do anything you ask him to. With mine, I go to the store and buy the ATF+4 (Advance's own label, $3.94 a quart), and go to the dealer to get the Mopar filter. I give them to my mechanic and he charges me $75. That might be a little much seeing as I'm doing part of the work (acquiring the parts), but I'm glad to do it for the peace of mind. And he's glad to do it because he knows I go to him exclusively.

There's a lot to be said for finding a good, local, independent mechanic. I'm told women feel the same way about their gynecologists.

Good luck.

Rick

[rtelles]

I made up my mind and decided that I will ask the dealer to do a Transmission Fluid Replacement (change filter included).. I will not go for the torque convertor fluid replacement though because I do not want to spend an extra $40 for something might not even be needed (assuming AAMCO indeed used ATF+4)... The reason why I will pay the $150 + taxes to do the fluid replacement is because I want the dealer to have that service in record so in case I have problems with the transmission down the road, they don't come saying that because they did not change the fluid themselves, the warranty is voided... I have the powertrain warranty (7years/115,000kms) so I guess if problems arise down the road I will be covered this way ...

Maintenance schedule requires Transmission Fluid service, but does not mention anywhere the Torque COnvertor service anywhere, so I guess I would be fine by just doing this... Any further comments please let me know...

Thanks,

[HeadlessHorsemn]

Use Dodge's gasket - it's probably made of metal with a bead of silicon running around the inner edge. This is WAY better that just RTV alone. $187 sounds about right for dropping and cleaning the pan and magnet, replacing a whopping 9 quarts of tranny fluid and a gasket. Money WELL spent.

[The Critic]

Although this is my first post, many members in this thread have not been giving the original poster the best advice possible, as they are not informed about the differences between ATF+3 and ATF+4.

ATF+4 was developed back in the late 90s with the goals of developing a fluid that would be backwards compatible with ATF+3, yet featuring increased service life and fluid durability, as well as greater oxidation protection.

The coefficients of friction with ATF+4 and ATF+3 are identical, as ATF+4 was designed to be used in ATF+3 applications as well. However, in-house DC testing has shown ATF+4's ability to retain its dynamic friction properties for > 100,000 miles, whereas, ATF+3's dynamic friction properties would degrade to such an extent after 30,000 miles that shudder problems may arise.

With the later ATF+3 fluids, 7176E, along with the new ATF+4 fluid, DC began incorporating the usage of a specially developed, extremely shear-stable viscosity index improver for use in ATF+4 and ATF+3(7176E) fluids. As a result, comparison shearing tests between various fluid types have shown ATF+4 to have 1/4 the amount of shearing as a comparable Dexron-III. ATF+4 is also the most unique product on the market. With other fluids, the OEM does not have any control over the supplier of the additive package and/or base oils. With ATF+4, DC specifically requires the unique VHVI Group III base oil to be purchased from Petro-Canada or SK only, and the additive package, the only approved one, is from Lubrizol only.

In other words, DC established such a strict criteria for ATF+4 to assure uniformity and greater control over fluid quality, as part of the reason why ATF+4 was developed was to solve some of the poor quality fluid problems associated with some ATF+3 brands.

Thus, using Dexron-III(H) and Lubegard HFM Supplement to generate an ATF+3/ATF+4 fluid is not a good substitute, especially if the fluid is run for the OEM drain intervals. The combination would lack the cold-flow properties of the synthetic ATF+4, as well as the shear stability of the approved ATF+4 fluid, which can lead to possible durability issues from inadequate wear protection due to viscosity loss. However, if the fluid is changed at least every 30,000 miles, it is probably OK but I still would not recommend using this "mix," so to speak.

As to the original poster, here's what I recommend:

1) In the US, Aamco uses Dexron-III(H) and Lubegard HFM supplement for servicing DC transmissions. I don't know about Canada, but it is quite possible that they did use ATF+4 as it seems as though Canada has better avaliability of ATF+4 products. Up until several months ago, here in the US, Mopar ATF+4 was the only licensed product. Now, Valvoline's ATF+4 is also a licensed ATF+4 product.

2) ATF+3 is perfectly compatible with ATF+4. You will simply have to change the fluid more frequently due to its lesser dynamic friction retention abilities. The issue with seal compatibility is with ATF+4 only. The problem involves ATF+4 possibly causing seal incompatibilities in units originally spec'ed for ATF+3, as the seals of these units may not be "up to 'snuff" for the ATF+4 product. Ford has a similar issue with the 4R100 units, they recommended Mercon fluid only, no Mercon-V, as some of the seals in the units could not handle Mercon-V for some reason, though I haven't heard of any reported cases of Mercon-V causing leaks in those units though, however.

3) I would not worry about changing the filter. It would be silly to change the filter again solely because it was in use for a week. Have the transmission flushed with ATF+4. Make sure the dealer is using an actual approved ATF+4 product. Petro-Canada, Valvoline, and Mopar ATF+4 are all approved by DC. I do not know about other brands. The nice part about ATF+4 is the uniformity of all licensed ATF+4 products; whichever brand you may purchased, you can be assured that the exact same composition is present. Look for the words "approved by Chrysler for use in ATF+4 applications," NOT "recommended for use in ATF+4 applications by XXX."

Hope this helps.

[shelbydodgeimp]

2) ATF+3 is perfectly compatible with ATF+4

Then why are there TSBs stating you can top off ATF3 with ATF4 but not vice versa?

[The Critic]

They do not want users topping up ATF+4 with ATF+3 since ATF+3 has a much shorter service life. If a user tops up ATF+4 with ATF+3, and continues following the ATF+4 service interval, depending on the amount of top-up of ATF+3, the user may experience early shudder/fluid durability issues as the ATF+3 isn't designed for the longer service intervals. It's the same concept of Ext. Life coolants. If you top-up with conventional coolant, you limit the service life of the fluid to the working life of the fluid you topped up with.

Also, ATF+4 is generally backwards compatible w/ATF+3. Some apps originally spec'ed for ATF+3 may have some seal compatibility issues with ATF+4 and I believe the affected transmissions would be the A604 units in < 99 Dodge minivans, IIRC.

[rtelles]

Thanks a lot for all the information... So here's an update on this whole transmission fluid replacement:

I took the minivan again to the dealer yesterday so they could determine where the leak was originating. According to AAMCO guys it was a leaking solenoid valve. Well apparently the technician at the dealership said the solenoid was fine, no leaks (so I guess the AAMCO guys were trying to get money from me, or the dealership could not find the leak). However they found that the water pump was leaking, hence they replaced it.

I paid for the transmission service, but one thing that got me thinking is that after reviewing the receipt it says only 1 Unit of ATF+4 was used (01-081-03) $6.8, then it says 1 Unit of Lubricant (01-081-09) $26.35 was used. I can only conclude the lubricant is just a wrong description of the product and that it is indeed 1 Gallon of ATF+4, but if not, then what is this lubricant ??

Anyways, now that the dealer has record of Transmission Fluid replacement being done there if I have problems down the road they cannot blame it on AAMCO and void the warranty.. As for the $125 I paid at AAMCO, well it's a learning experience, I just wished I got the advice in the forum before...

Thanks again..

[The Critic]

You'll have to check with your dealership to see what those two items are. $26 sounds about right for 4L of ATF+4, which is the required amount for a pan drain on an A604 unit. The $6 item, well, I have no clue. :D

If you happen to have a fluid extractor, I would try to pump out the pan contents and refill with fresh ATF+4 from Mopar or Petro-Canada two more times to remove as much of the mystery Aamco mix as possible.