Report: Electric Fan install success....

[RamVanMan]

Hello Van fans,

The electric fan install (and of course, the stock mechanical fan uninstall) was completed a couple of days ago, so here is the initial report: {a 'full tank MPG' report to follow next week or so....**

The install went pretty much according to the illustrated instructions provided by Flex-a-lite, for the model # 180 the 'Black Magic Extreme' unit. The cost was $ 269 from Summitracing.com.

I chose this particular model for simplicty sake, it fit the radiator easily, moves 3300 cfm, (the most powerful 16' electric fan on the market)- partly because it features a well designed full shroud.

This is very important - the full shround directs the maximum air flow through the radiator, instead of just moving hot air around the engine compartment.

[I didn't get the similar, cheaper yet nearly shroudless Black Magic fan # 150 for that reason.]

One crucial feature it has, is an adjustable thermostat that allows one to set the start up temperature of the fan. Set too low, it would run too much and prevent the engine from warming up. Basically, it must not run until the engine thermostat has fully opened, and once running, at idle, the fan runs for a minute or two, then shuts off by cooling the coolant below it's 'shut down temp'.

It's kind of funny to hear the fan run after shutting down the van - but good because all engines with soley mechanical fans 'superheat' after shutdown, and this helps cool it off quickly.

Now, it must be admitted up front that the Flex-a-lite tech guy, Bob, advised a different fan. He suggested the # 295 dual fan, but I took a different route for a reason - I wanted lower current consumption -the dual fan used up to double the amps.

In contrast, the 'Black Magic Extreme' uses 18 amps, but gives 3300 CFM, which I thought adequate to cool the engine, for the conditions which I drive in. The dual fan was also $ 100 more, to boot...

The dual fan set up is larger, a full 27' wide to cover the entire radiator (a good idea, but the flex a lite FAQ say 75 % coverage by a shroud is usually adequate....). I'm sure this will provide maximum cooling possible - this dual fan moves 4600 CFM. (If you tow trailers in 110 degree weather, you probably DO need this dual fan set up....)

But I was glad I chose the smaller unit as due to my 'double Air Conditioning set-up - that is front & rear AC' it makes things extremely tight under the hood, and I doubt with the larger fan I could have fit it, or had room to connect my custom bent brackets (the included universal brackets) to the 4 radiator support bolts.

Now to performance impressions: the van runs WAY quieter - buzzing mech fan noise is GONE. Both at idle and road speed - probably 2-4 db quieter in the cab.

The engine warms faster - no mech fan trying to cool down the engine prematurely. If you live in 'cold country' this would be a huge advantage.

Another pleasantly surprising advantage - I think having an E-fan will encourage better engine maintanance. How so ? Now the entire front of the engine is visible, formerly hidden by the stock shroud, so you can better monitor hose & belt condition and any developing leaks - this can only be a good thing !

The engine feels 'livelier' - more pep & HP as was predicted by others. We live & drive in the 4000 - 6000 ft range in the So Cal mountains & every HP helps offset the altitute losses. At sea level, the engine feels much more authoritative, eager to rev & move.

Yesterday, we did a 'heat test' drove to Palm Springs in the 95 - 100 degree heat. No problem - down the grade, the fan didn't even run. Coming back up it ran, and I was 'pushing' it with the AC on, and it started to run up the temp on the factory (unmarked) guage to the 2/3 rd mark**, but no higher.

As soon as I turned off the A/C, and hit the cooler mountain air, it dropped quickly to the 1/3 mark and got no higher even though we continued to gain another 1500' elevation.

That sounds like pretty good cooling to me ! Nonetheless, I did add a quart of that 'supercooler' (Enginekool by CRC/Napa) stuff to lower temps even more.

A good test will be to tow a trailer (2000 # plus) in summer temps and see how high it goes.

I confess ignorance on how high the coolant temps can go without it being a problem....right now I'm looking at installing a water temp guage so I can have a number reference.

If any of you consider such an installation, I'd be happy to write a more technical description including pictures. This is just my 'general impressions' report after just 200 miles / 3 days.....I admit to hoping for a 2-3 mpg improvement, we shall see.

Thanks David B. Ram Van Man

**[I wish I knew what degrees that represented -]

[Dodgevanman]

Cool thanks for the report Dave. Pics????

One question for you....do you have it set-up so that the fan activates when you turn the A/C on? The reason I ask is because sitting in traffic with the A/C on and the fan not turning you won't get any cool air and it could potentially damage the A/C system. Also, in winter time the compressor kicks on when you turn on the defrosters.

[DANVAN]

Im interested, keep posting your findings.

What yr and eng do u have?

[RamVanMan]

Cool thanks for the report Dave. Pics????

One question for you....do you have it set-up so that the fan activates when you turn the A/C on? The reason I ask is because sitting in traffic with the A/C on and the fan not turning you won't get any cool air and it could potentially damage the A/C system. Also, in winter time the compressor kicks on when you turn on the defrosters.

Cool report.....are you being punny, Nate ?

Ha Ha couldn't resist - It's a very cool report for sure ! Haven't spent 2 days and 300 clams for nothing I trust !

And yes, they advise in the instructions- strongly- that you tap into the 'hot' AC compressor clutch wire and plug into the corresponding terminal on the Flex a lite adjustable thermostat box for "auto AC on operation".

One reason I chose this fan was because of the fairly sophisticated 'fool proof' wiring box with the adj thermostat. I know Summit and the fan mfrs sell the bits and parts so you can 'piece together' a fan set up, but this seemed to make more sense for my limitations, anyway.

I'm now installing the water temp guage, ran into a snag.

I'll mention it here Nate, just the same, it's the fact that although the threads on the block drain are 1/4 NPT tapered threads (what I expected), and an adaptor adapting the guage captive fitting (3/8 NPT) to that port is on hand, it's too shallow - the sensor tip bottoms out inside the coolant jacket before the 3/8 captive nut (with sensor directly in front of it) can be threaded in !

What to do ? I need more depth that is clear...

Not sure what adapter is needed...will think on this a while....ideas ?

[RamVanMan]

Im interested, keep posting your findings.

What yr and eng do u have?

Dan, it's a 1996 B-2500, high top conversion van, with the 318 / 5.2 litre engine. Cooling system in good shape, new radiator & water pump - 105 k miles.

I'll update you all for sure. Best Regards, David

[Dodgevanman]

If you use an electric gauge, the sending unit isn't as long. Just a suggestion.

Thanks for the A/C tip...I'm considering an electric fan swap and was just wondering what you did for that. Thanks!

[gsmagnum]

This looks like a pretty nice swap.
I am still a JY dog and would look into a set of '94 or so minivan fans as they should flow quite a bit too.
My old minivan had a huge radiator and A/C condenser.
It is good to have a Part # for the aftermarket kit though too.

Thanks for the great tech report.

[Elajten]

Is the fueleconomy better now when you have the elextric fan? If so, i want to change fan on my 318 V8 too =)

[crazyinkc]

I just did this last night. It was a piece of cake. I bought an electric fan controller from Autozone for $18 and wired a relay for the A/C. Works pretty slick. I found my original radiator was plugged up on half of the cores so I bought a new one from Autozone. They even price matched a local guy who only sells radiators so I got mine for $146. The worst part was getting the stupid fan off. I put a nice gash in my right hand when the pliers slipped.

[RamVanMan]

Hey crazyinc, what brand of fan did you install ?

Yes, Elajten, there's no doubt the MPG will increase - the engine runs quieter - no huge fan spinning like giant flyswatter needlessly - for me the power increase is noticeable - the claim from the fan mfr that you gain 15-20 rear HP is likely true in some applications.

If you have this engine in a Dakota, will you even notice the increase ? But in our High Top conversion, ANY power increase is very needed !

OK part number is # 180, Flex-a-lite (Mfr), Model: Black Magic Extreme Fan

SummitRacing.com for $ 269.00

All their e-fans are on this page :

http://jeeperz.tenmagazines.com/ipg.ten-sid-31-lid-934-x-flexalite

Yeah, Gsmagnum, the JY route is a good one - I just don't have one near me and I needed a 'seamless' install - time is precious...I had a '99 Grand Caravan and it had an e-fan that might be adaptable.

I'll report my MPG once I do a tank full.....take care all, David Ram Van Man

[crazyinkc]

My friend had a 16" fan laying around that he used on his 73 Mustang. I setup the thermal switch to cut in right below the third mark and it cuts out a little below the half mark. I have a 94 B250 so I have no numbers on my guage. It looks like the same fan I bought for my step daughters Fiero. I found a 16" fan for her car on Ebay for $40 shipped. It works good.

[RamVanMan]

CrazyinKC:

Very good - I admire your ability to just 'make it work'.
Did your fan include a shroud ? Did you keep the stock one ?

btw, on my '96 van the guauge is also unmarked - if the calibration is the same as yours, the 1/3 mark should be 190 F or so, according to my newly installed Sunpro water temp guage.

I guess they offer complete kits for the other of us who need a 'fool proof' can't miss install....Regards, David

[crazyinkc]

The fan has a full shroud. I can give a write-up and schematic if someone would like along with a bill of matierials. I am an electronics tech so figuring out the wiring was not hard for me. I removed the original shroud and fan. It cleaned up the engine bay alot. The very first thing I noticed was how quiet the engine was without the fan. Thanks for the info on the guage. I was using a cheap thermometer and I think it was off by atleast 10 deg. F so I will tweek the thermal switch down abit.

[Intrepidacious]

I'd sure like to do that on my Durangos. I'll don't understand why the mechanical fan is running hard and strong when the engine is stone cold!

About 20+ years ago, I put a big Hayden electric fan (the largest one they had back then) on a 1975 Dodge Dart. It was a good installation but it really couldn't move enough air for the A/C. I added a pusher fan up front -- a bit smaller for grille clearance -- to help out and that solved the problem. The nice thing was that the two fans together actually made the A/C work better than ever, and the system would actually take another can of Freon due to the extra cooling/condensing that the fans were causing.

[Dodgevanman]

Eventhough the mechanical fan is spinning when the engine is cold, it's not drawing the same amount of air in when the engine is hot. It does this via a thermal clutch on the fan blades. Besides you still want the fan to turn when you have the A/C on so air is drawn across the condenser when your stopped.

I really want to do the electric fan install as well on my van.

[75 Power Wagon]

i just did a similar electric fan install on my truck... cost me less than 230 bucks to do... and works great.

http://www.dodgetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102844

[Intrepidacious]

Eventhough the mechanical fan is spinning when the engine is cold, it's not drawing the same amount of air in when the engine is hot. It does this via a thermal clutch on the fan blades. Besides you still want the fan to turn when you have the A/C on so air is drawn across the condenser when your stopped.

I really want to do the electric fan install as well on my van.

When I first crank either Durango up in the morning, there's the characteristic roar of a fully engaged clutch when the engine is revved, even during the winter with no AC (or defrost, etc.).

Within a couple of minutes it apparently "warms up" and goes into stealth mode. ;) Both Durangos act the same.

The only thing I can imagine is that it puts some artificial load on the engine to heat it (and especially the cats) up more quickly.

[DANVAN]

I get that same sound from my fan, I kinda like it, its a sound of power.

[Intrepidacious]

Here's an explanation I found:

The viscous fan drive will engage the fan for maximum cooling when temperatures are high and allow the fan to operate at slower speeds when temperatures are low. In addition, at engine start-up, the viscous fan drive engages the fan for maximum cooling until the fluid in the viscous clutch can dissipate out of the clutch drive grooves allowing the fan to operate at a slower speed.

[RamVanMan]

I get that same sound from my fan, I kinda like it, its a sound of power.

Hey Dan, I know it SOUNDS like power, but what if that sound actually signifies wasted fuel & horsepower, or perhaps minimal cooling at idle w/ your AC on ? Just a thought....

I'm enjoying the quiteness of the engine at all times (save for when the e-fan kicks in....it really sounds powerful...one of the kids at church said, hey you can turn off your engine now....) and for this heavy van, the HP gain is very noticeable.

It's also reasurring to have it kick on upon shutdown of the engine to cool the engine off thoroughly.

It was over 100 in Palm Desert yesterday, and with the engine idling with the AC on it remained at about 205-210 which didn't seem bad at all - as soon as I started driving, it immediately went down to normal - 195 - and stayed there.

Added benefit: you can spot problems better now with the stock fan & shroud gone:

I discovered a front main seal leak I didn't know was there ! Another repair ! -Sigh -

Ah yes, it goes with the territory of having a 10 year old well kept van, at least I don't have lousy milage AND a
$ 600 monthly payment like my neighbors with their fancy new SUV's ......

I'll post pics when I locate my digital camera...take care all, David :gr_patrio

[RamVanMan]

Hey guys - it's been a while, here's pics and an update:

I'm glad I installed the E-Fan, which is Black Magic Extreme by Flex a lite - 16", 3300 CFM and has thermostat contol. Cost: $ 269 from summitracing.com.

MPG has increased about 1 to 1.5 mpg or so. I now run the A/C and get the same mileage as before, without AC. Also, the AC runs so much cooler it's amazing - due to the fact that the fan runs whenever the AC is on, always providing max airflow over the conderser coils.

This fan moves plenty of air - in our semi-airid, mountain / desert climate -summertime temps to 110, averaging 100, it's doing great!

I only recommend going to the larger more expensive dual fan if you :

1) live in Phoenix or Death Valley
2) tow loads in those climates

I also love the fact that it runs (briefly...) upon engine shutdown to cool things off rapidly. (Mechanical stock fans don't do that...) This can only help engine components to last longer due to less 'heat shock'.

I wish I had taken photos during installation - the new fan is so compact that you can't get a good angle shot after it's in.

Note how much engine is now visible due to the missing stock fan shroud.

take care, David B.

[RamVanMan]

Greetings to all:

I haven't been posting here in a long while. :(

Ok well it's time for an update:

I'm reasonably happy with the performance of the reported on Flex a Lite 'Black Magic Extreme 180', as described earlier in this thread. But now, not quite two years later, the fan motor has died in it.

Out of warranty. New fan motor was a bit pricey - $ 126 from SummitRacing.com, so I sought another solution.

I ordered a smaller Flex a Lite fan from NAPA - the basic 'Trimline 116' - just $ 119 which is for the whole unit - It has thermoplastic blades 16" with a thermoplastic cage / mounting housing. It comes with simple wiring & fuse - default is wiring to accessory + so fan runs when key / engine is on.

It moves a bit less CFM than the prior unit, but draws way less amps - only 10 versus 18 for the prior unit - and has simpler mounting - 'thru core' versus angle brackets that were a royal pain to install.

I was able to transfer the adjustable thermostat / AC relay 'brain' from the earlier fan unit, and wire it in to control the new one - that way the fan can cycle on & off via coolant temps & also on with AC relay built into (just like the old one did).

I like this because it continues to cool the engine even after shutdown - which helps passenger / driver comfort due to decreasing 'heat invasion' from the doghouse to passenger area.

Plus the AC does seem to be colder now.

One reason I thought I could get away with the lower CFM's of this model fan is that I already have two cooling products in place that I didn't have earlier:

1) Engine Oil Cooler - Standard model Flex a Lite

2) Derale tranny cooler pan - cooling tubes run through it

So, those two mods help engine run cooler than stock already.

If I find that I need more CFM's with summer temps, I still have room to mount an additional 10" fan diagonally down from this 16" model, for a twin fan arrangement.

The factory made twin fan units run about $ 400, pretty spendy. Much more affordable to just mount the economical 'Trimline' single or dual fans themselves.

I know the e-fan switch gives about a 1.5 mpg increase, and more HP to the rear wheel - plus quieter operation, compared to the mechanical OEM set-up.

Whether it's worth it to you is another matter, of course.

Take care all,

David B.
Ram Van Man

[van-nut]

David -

This will be of no use to you now, but something to keep in mind in the future - some credit cards offer a no charge extended warranty if you purchase a product with a warranty with their credit card. For example, some Citibank cards will double the original warranty period, up to 1 or 2 extra years (I forget now) if you pay for it using their card. Not a bad deal. See if any of your cards offer this and take advantage of it in the future if they do. I bought a new digital camera last year that way.

Also, thanks for the update. :)

Pete

[RamVanMan]

Van-Nut:

Great advice. I'll keep that in mind upon purchasing more items.

I did decide to add the extra 10" Flex a lite "Trimline" series fan - ($ 87 with shipping from Summit Racing, btw) identical to the larger 16" fan already installed.

My rationale went like this:

- Cover more radiator area - with the 2nd fan, about 80 % of the area will be covered. Perhaps more importantly, no single radiator tube will be without coverage. The placement of the twin fans (16" & 10") in a diagonal pattern of placement ensures this.

- Right now, temps are in the low 80's, and the 16" fan did fine. But by August it will be 90 - 100 range plus I have dual AC units, and I do sometimes tow 2 - 3,000 # utility trailers.

It stands to reason that having plenty of airflow then will be a good plan.

- Total amp draw will still be only 17 amps total with the twin fans mainly run upon idling or shutdown. Ram air accounts for cooling at most road speeds.

This is where the efans gain you on fuel economy. Your'e not turning this giant flyswatter & fan clutch needlessly with every engine rotation. Ram vans & trucks usually report 1 - 1.5 mpg improvement.

- Economy - If you price the dual fan units with integral shrouds, it's breathtaking how much they cost. We're talking $ 400 - 600 or more. Lots of engineering & materials cost.

Using the twin individual fans cost around $ 200. The accessory adjustable thermostat cost $ 30 or $ 60 for the model that features the AC relay. (They even offer a fancy one that features variable speed to the motors in response to temperature.)

I think using the cheaper, dual fans might give more flexibility as you can place them individually on your radiator.

That said, I guess I can offer my 'needs rebuilding' BME # 180 fan unit here if anybody wants it.

It's needing a new motor, but the housing, fan itself, weatherstrip & bracketry are all fine: http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=FLX%2D180&N=700+115&autoview=sku

New, this fan is $ 306 from Summit Racing.

I have no idea what it should go for - if anyone is interested PM me.

The replacment motor can be had from Summit Racing for around $ 120 : http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=FLX%2D30195&N=700+115&autoview=sku

Best Regards, David

[stev]

David,

Yes, it's been some time since anyone has heard from you other than the private e-mail a few months back. Good to hear from you!

Hey, if I had known that you fan motor was dead, I could have shipped you one.

Also, after reading many of the Ram Truck forums, it seems that the Dodge Viper Fan, Shroud and motor assembly will bolt up to the Magnum engine radiators !!! Plus it keeps things very cool. These can be purchased via Mopar Performance or a local Dodge dealer.

The Viper fan is the rave talk in the Dodge Dakota forums across the web.
Check out this linky ... http://faq.dakota-truck.net/HOWTO/viper_fan_install.html

There is also a very good fan controller sold on the web, but I have to dig up that link vs. the Dakota how-to.

http://faq.dakota-truck.net/HOWTO/images/viperfan.jpg

[RamVanMan]

Hey Stev:

How are you, brother ! Yeah, It's been a while. I've been very, very busy getting our home & business transferred to Texas.

Biggest challenge in our married life, in fact ! Even with God's amazing grace, still a mind-numbing array of details.

Ergo, not much time left for 'optional' vehicle mods, you understand. That's why my long absence from here.

Thanks for the offer on the fan motor. What would it have cost ?

Do you want this unit ? If you have an 'in' on the motor, you'd have a nice functional fan.

I just can't bear to toss this thing, it's 'too nice'.

Hey I like that Viper fan unit. What do they get for that gem ? I take it the 2nd pic is it modified to fit the V-8 magnum radiators like in our Vans.

I'll try to post some pics of my radiator with the 2nd 10" fan mounted - and details of it's performance, once tested.

Hey, you used to work for Delphi right ? Can you weigh in on the controversy over in the electric fuel pump thread about if the popularly shown Delphi fuel pump sold for our vans, if it's the actual OEM unit Dodge sells ? Or if it's not, how you'd rate the quality you'd expect from it ?

Great to see you're still here Stev.
My best to you & the family.

God bless,

David B.

[stev]

Dave,

Hopefully your move isn't a strain on the marriage, only a blessing following the Lord's lead in your life. :)

Delphi has many product offerings, however through it's bankruptcy, different manufacturing facilities have been sold off. So, at this time, it's too hard to say one way or the other if Delphi currently makes the fuel pumps. The Delphi division in Rochester, NY called Delphi E&C (Energy & Chassis) would be my best guess on where the fuel pumps are made.

As for the eFan, I'm working in PowerTrain Cooling (PTC) now at Delphi. For how long, only the good Lord knows. Times in the automotive industry are very hard. I'm holding on to my job daily by prayer.

Peace!

Stev

[RamVanMan]

Stev,

Thanks for your kind thoughts !

Actually, our marriage is stronger than ever, God has used the fires of adversity to strengthen our relationship. The move is a blessing, oveall. But you do discover that 'the grass is always greener' & then reality hits hard. You simply don't uproot after 40 years in a region (13 at our last home) & move 2/3 across to an entire continent different region, without a lot of turmoil & challenges. But we trust God's plan is to cause all things to work out for good (Romans 8:28) despite appearances to the contrary.

And I sure hope your job challenges work out.

I'm sure as you are 'acting as Daniel or Joseph' that your bosses will think....if we have to fire, we can cut this person, or that person, but not Stev, no way he's 'indispensible' in too many ways. I'm confident that IS true of you.

How's about the verse, "I've never seen the Righteous forsaken, or his seed begging bread." Amen ?!

On the pump, I guess we'll take that as a 'qualified confirmation'. For me now, it's a bit academic, as I think my pump might be fine. Just checking ahead.

Is it normal, judging by your vans, to hear the pump make a high pitched whining sound that is discernable when it's running and you're standing at the rear, mainly when the tank is 1/2 full or less ? Sound is not there when the tank is full.

Blessings to you all,

David B.

[bobo35]

Amen.

IHS;

SWilliams

[jdb1937]

No one has mentioned it here, but in addition to all these benefits of e-fan installs: the stock mechanical fan is really heavy, fan clutches are simply heavy. The problem is that stock, heavy, mechanical fans hang off of the water pump, which is what turns mechanical fans on most stock vehicles. I'm sure it does on the dodge 318 V-8. When you take off this heavy mech fan and replace it with an electric fan- the water pump fails not nearly so often - in fact i've never replaced any more water pumps after i started using e-fans. Reason is the water pump bearing is no longer overloaded from the heavy mech fan after you remove it. Another great benefit of e-fan installs. ALL of my vehicles have e-fans and have for years; even most stock vehicles are going to e-fans, too, with increased emphasis on mpg.

It is important to hook up the a/c relay as most have done. Actually what i do is run add'l, smaller e-fans in front of the a/c condensor, wired to come on with the a/c (instead of the main fan) Once the vehicle is warm and all 3 fans work together, you really get a maximum cooling effect. The air running over the condensor's fins helps keep it cool, thus helping greatly to keep your freon on the INSIDE of the a/c condensor. I also run 180 or even 160 degree thermostats, too, whatever the lowest i can still run and the CEL stays off. Lower water temp results in lower under hood temps: result is belts, rubber hoses, electrical wiring, the a/c (since it doesnt have to fight the higher 210 degree underhood temps) and also front main seals, head gaskets, and valve cover gaskets all last far longer or never have to be replaced; cooling performance is far better.

There is, though, a slight loss of fuel mileage with 180 degree water temp (1 or 2 mpg) due to loss of some thermal efficiency. However, well worth it to me since i enjoy all of the above benefits. Not having to ever do a head gasket, even at 200,000 miles, is a great benefit since that is about $2000.00 savings right there, something i cannot do by myself.

[alloro]

You do make some good points that could lead to a healthy debate. However, I do have to disagree with some things you've mentioned. One, the water pump lasting longer without the mechanical fan. If an undamaged and balanced fan is installed it creates very little stress on the water pump shaft bearings. The reason being is that the "stress" is applied equally in all directions. There is more stress on the bearings due to the belt pulling the shaft over to one side, than the fan could ever cause. Two, a mechanical fan runs all the time and moves more air across the engine than an e-fan ever would. Because of that and the fact of the components you mentioned lasting longer with less heat in the engine compartment. I would conclude those components will last longer if the mechanical fan were left in place.

[jdb1937]

You do make some good points that could lead to a healthy debate. However, I do have to disagree with some things you've mentioned. One, the water pump lasting longer without the mechanical fan. If an undamaged and balanced fan is installed it creates very little stress on the water pump shaft bearings. The reason being is that the "stress" is applied equally in all directions. There is more stress on the bearings due to the belt pulling the shaft over to one side, than the fan could ever cause. Two, a mechanical fan runs all the time and moves more air across the engine than an e-fan ever would. Because of that and the fact of the components you mentioned lasting longer with less heat in the engine compartment. I would conclude those components will last longer if the mechanical fan were left in place.

Yes, there is plenty of room for debate here.

On water pumps: I simply have not been replacing them since I do the electric fans. They have not been going out. When i buy a vehicle with 70,000 miles (do the e-fan and thermostat) and drive to 180,000 miles and still have yet to do a water pump- and this continues with multiple vehicles- kind of makes it clear there is a benefit. (about $250.00 or so for a water pump, installed?)

Yes, you are correct that mechanical fans, (when the fan clutch is actually working) do tend to cool better than even the best electric fans. This is why i always put not only the best e-fans (flex a lite BM extreme and etc.) but i also double the size of the stock radiator and make it out of all aluminum, getting rid of cheap plastic top and bottom (or side) tanks that will definitely blow if you stress them at all.

E-fans, though, IMHO remain worth it due to so many other advantages, like far easier to work on the engine, better heat in the winter, engine gets to operating temp faster (winter or summer), EFI gets to "closed loop" faster and the fuel/air mixture goes lean faster.

But, do all of this as i mentioned above, and you are into a cooling system makeover cost of around $1300.00 or so total, just for parts, not including the time it takes to install. (which is no problem for me, now, since i have done plenty)

[B-300]

If I recall correctly Summit also has the dual fan for a 3.3 V-6 caravan for a similiar price and a bit more for the Viper fan. (Both were fans ans shrouds)
Many OEM's use a mechanical fan with viscous coupler combined with an electric fan... The 4.7 Dakota and Nissian 240sx are 2 examples.

[leeann]

Many OEM's use a mechanical fan with viscous coupler combined with an electric fan... The 4.7 Dakota and Nissian 240sx are 2 examples.


The e-fan on my '89 240sx is for the condenser, not the radiator. It's controlled by a thermal switch connected to the AC controls. The only thing cooling the radiator/motor on the 240 is the mechanical fan.

[B-300]

Sorry to mislead on the 240 sx... It has an SR 20 DET conversion. which is the japanese engine with a turbo.

[RamVanMan]

jdb1937,

All of what you say appears to be true from my short time using an E-Fan on my Ram Van, as shown in this thread.

Open access of the front of the engine for maintenance & inspection is outstanding - clear view of everything !

I'd love to have no water pump worries - we'll see on that score. (makes sense....)

One advantage not discussed yet, is the help it is to underhood component longevity to have engine & compartment cooling continue 'post-engine-shutdown'.

With the mech fan, shut off the engine, the heat literally bakes the whole underhood - engine, wires, hoses, everything. With an E-Fan, the fan continues to run & cool everything down to a moderate 120-140 F, which has got to be a big help in extending the life of the whole works.

As kind of a side note, I also added a Flex a lite engine oil cooler, and everything seems to run so much smoother & engine heat is not a problem.

I go about 6,000 miles or so on a synthetic oil change, and the oil looks honey colored til about 4,000 miles or so.

150 K on this Magnum 318 and it runs sweet - oil consumption is zero. Get about 17-19 on the highway full of my family (all 7 of us), not bad for a hightop van !

(shoot our great old 99 Grand Caravan didn't do any better for mpg - we have way more room in this one.....)

I also added an E-Fan to my Samurai (1.3 / 4 cyl) a while back, eliminating the mechanical fan.

(I did that after the waterpump shaft sheared off, turning the flex fan into an impromptu 'radiator shredder').

Best Regards,

David B.

[jdb1937]

Thank you for the nice comments. Yeah, all of my vehicles have gotten E-fans right after i have bought them. (My 1937 John Deere "B", BTW one of the finest, best engineered vehicles ever, IMHO, is the lone exception, and although it is water cooled, there is no water pump on it) I havent had a water pump shaft shear off and shred a radiator yet (wont now) but that is yet another advantage for e-fans. And they get the aluminum radiator, too, it offers so much improved performance it is worth it. I buy the vehicles used, with 70,000 miles, so i feel i have some money for quality performance parts i feel are well worth it.

[marcclover]

great info.