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Ninja-Matic
04-28-2006, 08:23 PM
Doing a little research on W/I and I come across this in a local forum:

"Water injection is used to suppress detonation. Detonation occurs when the flame front does not burn progressively across the combustion chamber but instead explodes into action. This causes a massive and sharp increase in combustion pressures which can damage pistons, rings and even heads. Detonation can sometimes be heard as a 'tink, tink' sound coming from the engine. The piston and head shown here has suffered severely from detonation.

Water injection works in three ways. Firstly, when the water is injected into the intake system prior to the cylinder head, the small droplets absorb heat from the intake air. Water has a very high specific heat rating (it can absorb lots of energy while only slowly increasing in temperature) and so the intake air is initially cooled. Next, the small drops of water start to evaporate. Water has a very high latent heat of evaporation (its change of state absorbs a lot of heat) and so the intake air charge is cooled still further. Finally, when the remaining water droplets and water vapour reach the combustion chamber, steam is produced. This acts as an anti-detonant and also keeps the interior of the engine very clean, so preventing the build-up of carbon "hot spots".

Water injection was first experimented with in the 1930s. At the time it was discovered that detonation could initially be prevented by enriching the air/fuel ratio. As cylinder pressures rose still further and that approach ceased being effective, the injection of water into the intake air stream was found to prevent detonation. Interestingly, the detonation remained suppressed, even if the air/fuel ratio was then leaned-out. This occurred because the excess fuel was being used to cool the combustion process. When water replaced fuel in performing this function, less fuel was then required.

This has major implications for both emissions and fuel economy at high engine loads. In fact Saab on some of their recent turbocharged cars has used water injection at high loads in conjunction with leaner air/fuel ratios to reduce emissions output and improve fuel consumption. To put this another way, at high engine loads it is possible to reduce the amount of fuel being used, replacing it with water without sustaining any loss of power!"

So... basically if what I read is true, folks with TT can run HOM full time? Crank the boost and let her rip! Why buy high octane gas when you can lean out the mixture safely WHILE protecting your motor from detonation?

Andy
04-28-2006, 09:59 PM
Yeah, soon, I plan to look into a W/I setup. I'll get turbo toys, and run HOM 24/7.

Who knows, maybe upgrade to S3 and run HOM 24/7 with that :tup: :D That would be fun!

Ninja-Matic
04-28-2006, 10:12 PM
S3 w/toys? :rck: HOM would rock socks! I'm now thinking of s2 w/toys... that's 280 full time ponies... with the addition of an AGP wga set at 19 psi, full size FMIC, cai, 3" turboback, 60mm tb, ported intake, drive pulley... that should be 330-340 to the pavement on a decent suspension. If the HP adds up per mod...

:D

Ninja-Matic
04-28-2006, 10:13 PM
http://www.waterinjection.info/

http://www.modernperformance.com/all/water_inj/water_injection.shtml

Andy
04-29-2006, 12:08 AM
My original plan was to buy S2 w/o toys and buy a used S2 w/toys PCM, and get Prozens "toy box" to run HOM. Thats the hard part though, catching one for sale before it's sold.

I've been tossing around the idea of buying another S2, but w/toys this time and swap out the PCM install toys and sell a whole S2 w/o kit. Or just waiting and doing the S2-S3 upgrade. If someone would just give me a mil, I know exactly what I'd do lol

madwax
04-29-2006, 01:01 AM
S3 w/toys? :rck: HOM would rock socks! I'm now thinking of s2 w/toys... that's 280 full time ponies... with the addition of an AGP wga set at 19 psi, full size FMIC, cai, 3" turboback, 60mm tb, ported intake, drive pulley... that should be 330-340 to the pavement on a decent suspension. If the HP adds up per mod...

:D


Look on the srtforums.com performance thread under the stickies for the 300HP stock turbo setups, will tell you all the things to use to get to at least 300. And now with PtPerformance's few extra fuel mods out more is able to be had!! I have only seen one stock turbo get over 325, and he had a ported/clipped turbo, cams, light headwork, throttlebody, he had all supporting mods there are plus a few custom made. The 300 HP goal is easier to get to though now.

Ninja-Matic
04-29-2006, 01:37 PM
Aye, but that 300 on the kiddie forums uses a map clamp - it's ok if you feel like tuning your car every other day by doing 3rd gear pulls or boost leak tests to get the proper voltage on the clamp for a good a/f. I posted a few days ago about 300 HP stage 0.

I've seen over 350 on a stock turbo and internals - someone in the local SRT club here in Chicago is in the works for 11's on a stock turbo. I believe Modern is looking to break 10's on a stock turbo. It all depends on your setup and how much PSI you're willing to push with a stock turbo. Going from 13 PSI stock to 19 PSI will yield 280-290. But you need the mods to back it up. With the proper injectors, exhaust, intake, w/i, ic, etc. you can easily hit 330 on 18-19 psi. stock turbo and still be safe without ever having to tune your car thanks to Mopar's stage kits and ecu's.

S2/Toys is 280... A few more PSI, W/I kit running -20 degree washer fluid instead of water will easily break you over 300 - add some more bolt ons and you've got even more power without the need for tuning.

-20 Degree washer fluid uses a perfect mix of water/methanol for W/I kits. Hopefully going to install a W/I kit on an SRT today at a friends house.

SUN RA KAT
04-29-2006, 06:56 PM
My Viper uses water/methanol injection that acts as an intercooler. The timing can be advanced much further than normal without detonation because the incoming air is so much cooler. It will pick up over 30 rear wheel HP.

I used to run -20 degree windshield washer fluid that I picked up very inexpensively ($1/gallon) around this time last year from WalMart. Now I will be running a 50%-50% mix of distilled water and pure methanol. The water is less than $1/gallon. The methanol is for race cars and I pump it myself into 5 gallon containers for race fuel that were around $25 each (I got 3 of 'em). The methanol is $2.35/gallon. The 50-50 is the maximum ratio for cooling/power.

Methanol is very toxic & corrosive and requires special handling, so getting methanol safe hardware is very important. Snow engineering makes systems for various cars. Sean Roe of Roe Racing modifies the kits specifically for the Dodge Vipers and the Ram SRT-10.

Andy
04-30-2006, 10:19 PM
Well I'm thinking I might get a W/I setup sooner than first though...

I just got my aeroforce scan gauge, and I was getting knock retard today... It's only in the 80s out. Damn that 91 octane.

Ninja-Matic
04-30-2006, 11:22 PM
I'm no better at 92 octane here.

Andy
04-30-2006, 11:29 PM
I haven't looked much into it yet, do you know at all what the install for a kit is like? The kits really aren't that much money, I hope the install isn't too bad. It might be my next mod.

Ninja-Matic
05-01-2006, 07:04 PM
The install doesn't look to bad. I think the only thing you must provide is a tank for the water. I'm going with the deluxe kit from Modern Performance - 240.00 with free shipping. Before I get my S2 I'm going to make sure I have my AGP FMIC and JMB Pressure pipes. They make the best PP's for the buck (and they come in awesome colors, to boot!) They custom make hot/cold side intercooler piping for each order, you specify what you want on there. Fittings for every style BOV, nitrous, w/i, etc. I'm also gonna grab a new threaded IAT sensor from AGP - Instead of being pushed into a rubber grommet, it is screwed into the pressure pipe. Many a boost leak come from there!

Anyhow... I'd suggest:

Pressure Pipes (http://jmbperformance.com/store/index.php?cPath=21_26) and Water Injection Kits (http://www.modernperformance.com/all/water_inj/water_injection.shtml)

That way - you won't need to drill anything. I'm gonna find out if JMB can match the thread size for the AGP Thread-Type IAT. Anything to keep boost from leaking!

Sadly, for me, I'm on to the small upgrades until the wife and I finish selling our place. I can't realistically do much more until I move. Not enough space for the stock parts. (damn 2 bedroom condo! grumble) :VHOT:

Clint Burleigh
05-02-2006, 09:06 AM
You could ditch upgrading the intercooler to some monster if you plan on running water injection and the stock turbo. The water injection is enough and you could use the extra $375-600 on something else. Unless of course you just have to have the "look":cool:

Ninja-Matic
05-02-2006, 07:19 PM
Gotta have the look. Well... it's also something I don't have to buy later on if I want to upgrade to a bigger turbo.